Will Linux Lite work on non-PAE (old Pentium M) System?

[gold_finger]

@br1anstorm,

LL 2.0 and above are based on Ubuntu 14.04.

LL 1.06 and 1.08 are based on Ubuntu 12.04.


So, one would think that the double forcepae should work on the newer LL's.  If you go ahead with the install, let us know how it goes.  I'm curious myself to see if that does work.


Regarding other "lightweight" distros, AntiX is one you might want to look at also.  I'd say your best bet is to test a bunch of them on live DVD/USB for a quick look.  Then, if you can, select a few you think might be good contenders and install them on the hard drive.  Play around more extensively with them that way so you get a real sense of what they're like to use.  If applications you normally use are not included by default, install them.  (It's possible that performance may take a small hit if you install some of the same programs to the "minimal" distro that you'd normally have included in the more "full-featured" distro.  You'll want to know that to make a fair comparison.)  The more realistic your test, the better you'll be able to judge which is the overall best choice for you.

Regarding RAM -- yes, more RAM always helps.  However, it's always a tug-of-war whether or not it's a good idea to put more money into a very old machine that may not be worth much more than the cost of the new RAM.  To me it boils down to what you use the machine for and how long you plan to keep it.  If it is your main computer, or one you use frequently and plan to keep using, then it's worth the extra money.  If it's one you use mainly for testing, then probably not.

[N4RPS]

Hello!

Depending on who you deal with, with shipping, 2 GB (2 X 1GB) of new RAM for the D600 should be in the $30-$35 range...

73 DE N4RPS
Rob

[br1anstorm]

Just to pick up and perhaps clarify the point which goldfinger and I have been discussing about entering forcepae twice during bootup.  It certainly seems a lot easier and simpler than having to manually edit the grub file after installation.

I haven't actually tried doing this yet, as I'm still playing around with Live sessions and researching the forums, and have not yet permanently installed any Linux OS on my old Dell.  But I notice that the Ubuntu guidance to which I linked earlier, which describes the steps for entering forcepae twice, refers to this being a new(ish) option related to 14.04 and later. 

Now I haven't yet quite got my head around 12.04, 14.04 and all that.  But in my simple mind this has to to with the "base" on which the various versions of the various distros are built.  In motoring terms, it's the chassis, on which Lubuntu, Lite, Mint or whoever then puts the coachbuilt bodywork!

So..... if this option to enter forcepae twice as a way of permanently enabling pae on a Pentium M computer or similar is a development that comes with use of the 14.04 "base", then the obvious question is:  are Linux Lite 2.x and newer versions (or indeed the latest Mint) based on 14.04? 

Thanks also to goldfinger for the step-by-step on how to edit the grub file.  I'm bookmarking that for eventual use if necessary after I have done the installation.

Separately - to Rob (N4RPS), I tend to agree that adding RAM to my old Dell will help (I must look at sources/costs of extra RAM). 

For what it's worth, the other lightweight non-pae distro which I have already tried out in Live session on my old laptop is LXLE.  A variant on Lubuntu, I believe, and quite user-friendly, although to be honest I find Linux Lite and Linux Mint Xfce much more attractive.

[N4RPS]

Hello!

One more thing: If forcepae does not work for you, you will not be able to use LL 2.X.

If I were you, I'd invest in more/new memory, and go to 1GB RAM - or 2GB, if it will recognize 1GB DDR SODIMMs. Sure, LL WORKS with 512MB RAM, but with only that much memory to work with, you will most likely NOT be particularly pleased with its overall performance.

Don't let anyone here get me wrong - I LOVE LL a LOT, and as my Linux flavor of preference, I recommend using it whenever possible. However, with only 512 MB RAM to work with, for a better experience, by order of preference, I'd go with:

1. Lubuntu (easiest on the end user),
2. Debian, or
3. Puppy, which I wouldn't recommend to those new to Linux.

It would be interesting to see what others have to say about this subject...

73 DE N4RPS
Rob

[gold_finger]

I am following this thread with interest, as I'd like to run Linux Lite on my old Dell 8600 laptop which has a Pentium M 1500MHz non-PAE CPU (and only 512 MB of RAM).

I, too, saw the guidance on the Linux Mint site about adding the "forcepae" arguments when booting up.  I have tried that successfully for Live sessions of both Mint 17 and Linux Lite 2.2.  Both run fairly well on that laptop.

Thanks for reporting back that "forcepae" works in LL.

The guidance given on the Ubuntu documentation site  here  suggests that "The "forcepae" option must be entered twice, before and after the delimiter "-- ", so that it is applied to both the kernel on the ISO and the kernel on the system after installation" (my underlining) .

I take that as saying that is all one needs to do, and the installed OS will then run happily thereafter.

I was unaware of this change until now with your post.  My take on it is the same as yours.  It sounds like if you do "forcepae -- forcepae" during bootup of live DVD, that will ensure that the install will automatically have the forcepae boot parameter active and you shouldn't need to do anything more.  If that's true, then that certainly makes life easier.  I can't confirm that for you though, because I don't have any computers that need forcepae.


If that doesn't work, then you'd need to use forcepae on first bootup of the installed system.  Once in, you'd then open the grub file under /etc/default directory and add the option there.  Open it with your text editor as root with this command:

Code: [Select]

gksu leafpad /etc/default/grub
In the text file that opens up, find the line

Code: [Select]

GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet splash"
And change it to this

Code: [Select]

GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet splash forcepae"
Save the file, close text editor.

Enter this in terminal to update grub

Code: [Select]

sudo update-grub
Change should now be permanent on reboots.

[br1anstorm]

I am following this thread with interest, as I'd like to run Linux Lite on my old Dell 8600 laptop which has a Pentium M 1500MHz non-PAE CPU (and only 512 MB of RAM).

I, too, saw the guidance on the Linux Mint site about adding the "forcepae" arguments when booting up.  I have tried that successfully for Live sessions of both Mint 17 and Linux Lite 2.2.  Both run fairly well on that laptop.

The aspect that still puzzles me as a non-techie newbie is when, how, and how often the "forcepae" process needs to be done.

Obviously the relevant text can be typed in on the boot menu screen in order to launch a Live session.  I now know I can do this for both Mint 17 and Linux Lite.  But that is by definition a temporary exercise.  So.....

if one then installs on a non-PAE system, when and how does it need to be "forced" again?

The guidance given on the Ubuntu documentation site  here  suggests that "The "forcepae" option must be entered twice, before and after the delimiter "-- ", so that it is applied to both the kernel on the ISO and the kernel on the system after installation" (my underlining) .

I take that as saying that is all one needs to do, and the installed OS will then run happily thereafter. 

But I have seen it suggested in forums elsewhere that once installed on a non-PAE system, Mint 17 ....or Linux Lite.... either has to be "forced" by adding that instruction each time one boots up, or the grub file has to be edited and updated in order to make the "forcing" permanent.

Can anyone who understands this better than me explain the apparent contradiction?   Does the linked guidance from Ubuntu in fact mean that the forcepae only applies, and lasts, for the initial installed session?

And - follow up question - if in fact the grub file has to be edited to make the forcepae permanent, exactly what needs to be done and how?

[gold_finger]

mint 17.1 says there is a non PAE option but I tried it and the install was really broken.
Cinnamon did not have a system tray at all, and other stuff was just off.

Larry,

I didn't realize that you were trying to install the Cinnamon version of Mint on that old machine.  That is just not going to work.  Cinnamon desktop environment needs newer hardware and more graphics capabilities -- that's why nothing worked right.  (Honestly, I'm surprised you were even able to get it installed at all.)

Try again with either Mint Xfce 17.1 (32-bit), or 32-bit version of Linux Lite (using steps outlined before).  Linux Lite uses the Xfce desktop environment, which is why it will be very similar to Mint's Xfce version.  The Xfce desktop doesn't require as much resources to run and should do much better.

If computer doesn't work well with them, then try a different distro like AntiX.


P.s.  Test out Mint first since it's got an easier way to try with "force pae".  If it can boot into the desktop, my guess is that all should be fine.  (Note:  "forcepae" works for some models of the Pentium M, but not all.  Since it sounds like you were at least able to boot Cinnamon, I'm guessing yours is one that it will work on.)It will run slow/sluggish because it's running "live", not from the hard drive, but it should be okay.

When done with Mint, test out LL.  If "forcepae" addition to the boot parameters works, then it too should work fine.  Play around with each one a little, then pick the one you think feels best for you.  Let us know how things go.

[larry hickey]

mint 17.1 says there is a non PAE option but I tried it and the install was really broken.
Cinnamon did not have a system tray at all, and other stuff was just off. So don't believe
the non PAE option for 32 bit linux mint 17.1 unless you want very odd install.  Finally it became almost unusable. Rebecca is not for old machines like the D600, the boot menu non-withstanding.

I did put mint 13 on a toshiba,  not the D600 machine which has the non PAE issue.
The mint 13 :64 bit on the toshiba is great.

[Jerry]

We did one non-pae build - http://sourceforge.net/projects/linuxlite/files/1.0.0/beta2_nonpae/ but it's pretty old

[gold_finger]

In Mint release notes it states:

Booting with non-PAE CPUs

To boot Linux Mint 17.1 on CPU which do not officially support PAE (Pentium M processors for instance), please use the "Start Linux Mint with PAE forced" option from the boot menu.

Is that how you started the live Mint?  Or did you just start it normally?

Also, what exactly do you mean by Mint not really being "stable"?  Running from a live DVD or USB on an older system (that probably lacks a lot of RAM) can be very sluggish.  Once installed to the hard drive, performance is improved dramatically.

2)  The .iso file is 772MB but my cd/R capacity is only 727 mb.  Is there another way
to make the .iso then other than sending for one in the mail?

How did you try Mint?  That ISO file is 1.3GB.

Anyway, to answer question -- you'll need to boot from either a DVD, or a USB stick.  If your machine does not have a DVD player and it will not boot from a USB stick, you do have another option that will work.

• Download the ISO file for LL and use UNetBootin to make a live USB stick.  (For LL, as long as the USB is at least 1GB it will work.  For Mint, you'll need a 2GB or greater stick.)  Here are Windows instructions for using UNetbootin if you need them.
• Put the Plop Boot Manager on a CD.  (Check their site for documentation on how to do that.  Also, do a search on Youtube for videos showing how to do that.)
• When done making both the live USB (with LL on it) and the live CD (with Plop on it), restart computer with both of them attached.  You may need to access your Bios boot settings to tell computer to boot from CD if it doesn't do that automatically on startup.
• Computer should boot from the CD with Plop on it and you'll see the Plop Menu.
• Pick "Plop Boot Manager" from menu.
• Next screen will show boot choices and the USB stick will be one of them.  Use cursor keys to navigate to USB choice and hit ENTER.
• USB should now boot up.

If you used the "force pae" option when you tested out Mint and performance was bad, chances are that performance won't be any better in LL -- so don't get your hopes up too high.


I'm not sure if forcing pae works in LL same as in Mint or not, but you can try and see.  Boot the USB, then when the boot menu comes up and "Default" is highlighted, hit the TAB key to edit the boot options.  Then backspace twice and type forcepae followed by one space.  Hit ENTER key when done and wait.  It will take a few seconds or more of waiting, then it will begin to boot LL.  Test everything out and if all seems good go ahead with the installation.


If you got as far as installing, you'll need to do something similar to boot into the installed LL.  We'll get into that later if you do indeed install.


If LL and Mint just don't work well on the machine, then you'll need to try out a different distro that caters to older systems like yours.  I think AntiX might be one that works well on non-pae computers.

[larry hickey]

1) If the target is a dell d600 , non PAE system  with pentium M, is the
32 bit disto ok for this system?  (linux mint 17.1 32 bit is really not stable
for its support for non PAE systems- I tried it)

AND,

2)  The .iso file is 772MB but my cd/R capacity is only 727 mb.  Is there another way
to make the .iso then other than sending for one in the mail?