Linux Lite Forums
General => Off Topic => Topic started by: Coastie on September 17, 2017, 03:02:48 PM
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... Have been getting more and more fed-up with Firefox over the last couple of years. It kills me to say that because I've been a loyal user since the Netscape days. ...
I have also been using exclusively using Mozilla's browser when it was Netscape with Windows 3.1. I use DuckDuckGo as my primary search engine.
For several months and maybe longer, Firefox locks up regularly when on Google products (You Tube, Facebook, and Google Maps) due to script problems. I have tried different permissions and disabling NoScrips. Nothing fixed it.
I have watched several videos about this problem and the last www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxsQerHfQZo by Joe Collins convinced me to try Chrome. He doesn't recommend Chromium. I am no longer having this problem. I will have to use Chrome for Google products reluctantly until Firefox fixes this problem.
(I used GDebi package installer because it is not listed in Synaptic or Lite Software. Maybe it should be. :-\ )
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Chromium and Firefox just run too slow on this old machine. When I was windows based, tried they all. I have looked into some small ones you recommend on here, but they are not on a regular install. I've trashed and started over to often. Like you say, if it ain't broke....
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i been having issues with both... i been trying tryin to find an replacement for both
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I too am not enjoying either of those browsers. I don't have those same performance issues with Firefox that you've described, but I'm not so happy with it for other reasons. Chrome I don't like because it shows thumbnails of 8 most-visited sites, and I'm opposed to my browser taking screenshots of the sites I visit. Not very privacy-oriented at all. (Yes, I know there are extensions that will remove those thumbnails, and I know I can browse in incognito mode, but I feel that on principle, the standard browser should not be making screenshots). I tried out Chromium too, but (not surprisingly) it was almost identical to Chrome.
So, I recently installed the Opera browser and I have been pretty happy with it, both performance-wise and privacy-wise. If you wish, you can specify most-visited sites manually, but (as far as I can tell from my limited experience with it), it won't try to display screenshots of where you've been. I've only been using Opera a short time, but from what I've seen it's a good alternative for those who aren't happy with Chrome and Firefox.
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I too got fed up with Firefox and Chrome/Chromium for various reasons (including privacy a script issues) and have been using Vivaldi for a while. Apart from changing the default search engine to DuckDuckGo I find it "does the job". It is rather slow loading (wait for it to load - don't click again!) but otherwise I am very happy - as is my daughter using it on Windows. Worth a look.
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For you die hard Firefox users, let me suggest using SeaMonkey. It's a Mozilla browser, but has thousands fewer lines of code. It does get updates with regular security updates, but nothing like the constant updates you have with Firefox. It is fast, stable, and a real pleasant experience versus Firefox. I had used it a few years back and when Firefox started giving me the problems you guys are describing, I made the decision to switch to SeaMonkey and have never looked back.
If you decide to give it a try, but want a more familiar Firefox experience, then install the 'SeaFox' extension and the 'Classic Firefox theme for SeaMonkey'. The result is a very familiar Firefox version 3.X interface. The only hitch I've found by doing this is that the 'Find In This Page' search function doesn't work and I haven't found a work around yet. If it becomes absolutely imperative that I use that function I temporarily disable the 'SeaFox' extension and restart the browser. If you decide to try SeaMonkey, you can either download the tarball or add a repository to your software sources.
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I'd like to point out Opera was sold to a Chinese consortium a year or so ago and is not open source.
Draw your own conclusions.
Never being one for Firefox, I've always returned to Chrome or Chromium, but recently have tried *Brave browser* and *Vivaldi*
Both are excellent and are geared for security.
Brave is still in the early stages and is totally open source.
Vivaldi is built around being easily customised.
https://brave.com/
https://vivaldi.com/?lang=en
I now use Brave for about 95% of my browsing.
Both are worth a look.
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Thinking of Firefox? Think again. Do you have a Windows 7/8.1/or 10 machine? Put Firefox & ccleaner on it. Now. . .Right click ccleaner, open as administrator. Tools < browser plugins < Firefox. Make sure you are sitting down, or someone is holding you up. There are 13 extentions & 2 plugin's installed that I'll bet you've never heard of, or knew about. Ready for the cryptic list? Here we go:
*Application update service helper *Click-to-play staged rollout 1.2 *click-to-play staged rollout 1.3 *Firefox screenshots *Follow-on search telemetry 0.9.1 *Follow-on search telemetry 0.9.3 *Multi-process staged rollout 2.0 *Multi-process staged rollout 2.05 * Photon onboarding *pocket *sheet recipe client *uBlock Origin (if you have it) *Web compat *Plugin (with no name #1.4.8.903 & its signed google) *Open H264 Video codec.
Are any of these present in the Linux version of Firefox? I have no idea. But here's the worse part of it. Some of these extentions CAN NOT be uninstalled from Firefox. Wasn't that nice of them?
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I would like to use Midori more but it just crashes too much for me :( . So Firefox and Opera it is. I'll give Brave a try though.
@Vera:
I used Opera since version 4 I think. And stopped using it at version 12, when then changed to use the same engine as Chrome.
I came back to Opera recently (on Windows at least) and had the Thumbnails from previous sites I visited by default, not cool! Have to click on the configuration button at the top right in the speed dial to disable "Suggested Sites".
@banko:
Be it China or my own country, Governments spy on their people. I guess a fully "Libre"/open source browser would be a safer bet, maybe. Of using Tor... Scary stuff here : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_(surveillance_program (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_(surveillance_program))
@Ottawagrant:
I would strongly suggest you check your add-remove program list and also to a scan with the latest ADWCleaner from toolbit :
https://toolslib.net/downloads/viewdownload/1-adwcleaner/ (https://toolslib.net/downloads/viewdownload/1-adwcleaner/)
You seem to have some weird plugins... :(
I just downloaded Firefox 55.0.3 x64 (on Windows because not at home) to check what you are saying.
Got it from here :www.firefox.com , green Download Firefox button.
It installed two Plugins : OpenH264 by Cisco and Widevine Content Decryption by Google. From the description, the two are video codecs.
Uninstalled and downloaded the Firefox 52.3 ESR x64 version from here :
https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/organizations/all/ (https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/organizations/all/)
It installed the same codecs on first run, but also detected my outdated Java 8 Update 77 and two Microsoft Office 2010 authorization and file editing plug-ins. Java and Office were in "Ask to Activate" by default.
Cheers!
-TheDead
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I second the Seamonkey motion! It replaces both Firefox and Thunderbird, yet is much lighter on resources and much faster than either one alone. It's so lightweight that it's the default browser on several other Linux distros that aim to be "light" (Puppy, LXLE, others). Yet it's very fully featured. Very familiar to Firefox and Thunderbird users even without using the add-on to "make it look like Firefox."
SEAMONKEY IS NO LONGER A MOZILLA PROJECT (or else I wouldn't use it), it's just using Mozilla's name and hosting services for fundraising and stuff for now. It's built from the old Netscape Internet Suite, now open-source, and while it shares a lot of code with the others, there is much less code, much less bloat, and much more speed!
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Ottowagrant,
Two normal video extensions, a couple of normal optional Mozilla tracking extensions, and couple of MS system extensions. Widevine is pretty much necessary for decent proprietary video content. Used by netflix, amazon, pay as you go streamers, etc. Pretty much the standard now. Browser extensions are mostly driven by Google and Android development not MS.
I have used every browser and most of the OSs mentioned here, and quite honestly, for universal usability no browser on any OS outperforms Firefox and in Ubuntu it is certainly the best choice for performance. Seamonkey in LXLE used more ram to load than Firefox in LL on the same machine for me, and though Firefox also briefly peaked the cpu in LL, Seamonkey in LXLE peaked it longer. For reasonably good performance with video etc. you do need at least 500mb of ram and preferably at least a dual core cpu, but so does Seamonkey. Modern browsers are all ram expensive when loading, and cpu and ram expensive with video/audio/etc. They're not going to run on an i486 double space 66mhz machine even though the space shuttle did once unless you beowulf cluster about twenty-five of them together. Web innovation today is driven by companies like google and amazon. The Internet, the old informational institutional Internet with gopher and labyrinth etc, is long gone. The Wiki web is faster but a whole lot less accurate in content than the vast University library and government resources that were once available. Let's face it. Nix is old too. Luckily it has proved to be flexible for the old timer it is, and old timers can still use it even if they are not as flexible. Want some fun and an old school educational tour try E-links in the lx sub-system on Windows 10, or the FORG in your LL system.
TC
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I would try Sea Monkey again but I like my browser separate from my mail program (Thunderbird) in case browser locks up or crashes and don't need a webpage editor or RSS reader (handled by Thunderbird).
I researched it and read that the default download is 32 bit and getting the 64 bit is more complicated. Since it is not in the repos or Lite Software, there may be problems keeping up it to date.
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@trinidad
Gopher... wow talk about flashback! ;) Think we had Veronica(?) too. Usenet and stuff for Amiga.
Anyways, what do you think of PaleMoon? Tried it again yesterday, seems to have come a long way.
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I've tried many browsers; Vivaldi, Seamonkey, Tor, Midori, Maxthon, Torch, Comodo, UCBrowser - Windows only - and Firefox, Opera and Chrome which I currently have installed in Lite. Which one is better? Well, in Windows after several trials the one I like better is UCBrowser; it's chrome based and have quite a few handy features to boost browsing and downloading speed, and yes, they work! Unfortunately it's not available on Linux. I'd say that regarding Firefox, Opera and Chrome each one has its flaws and strengths. Performance will vary in every machine as well as user experience and preferences. However, Firefox and Opera seems to use less resources than Chrome, but then again, Chrome seems to load a little faster than Firefox and Opera. When I tried Seamonkey I found it quite buggy. Midori, Maxthon, Vivaldi and Comodo quite slow to load. Torch, well at that time it didn't work for me, so I can't say anything about it. I used Tor but then I've learnt that for having a real "Tor experience" it should be used with Tails, otherwise it miss its purpose. I don't know if you guys know of this site http://peacekeeper.futuremark.com/ which claims to be "The Universal Browser Test" but still, there's the link in case you don't. I ran the tests on each browser and it showed similar features for Chrome, Firefox and Opera in Lite. ;D
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From what I read, FutureMark stopped working on Peacemaker quite a while ago. :(
About a year ago I tested browsers with JetStream, SunSpider, Panopticlick, BrowserScope and HTML5Test.
I must says that in the end get a good Firewall able to block manually if needed and + Antivirus and use the browser or open-browser you like most. Dont beat yourself up with a super-secure and a pain to use browser. Or even better put all that in a virtual machine.
I'll stay with PaleMoon for now, see how it goes. I'll try brave this weekend ;)
Cheers!
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I researched it and read that the default download is 32 bit and getting the 64 bit is more complicated. Since it is not in the repos or Lite Software, there may be problems keeping up it to date.
I have the 64bit version installed and keep it updated via normal update procedure. I added the 'ubuntuzilla' repository to my software sources and then did the install via Synaptic. The 64bit version was automatically installed. Here is the result of 'file /opt/seamonkey/seamonkey', which reports whether an application is 32bit or 64bit.
/opt/seamonkey/seamonkey: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked, interpreter /lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2, for GNU/Linux 2.6.18, BuildID[sha1]=dc9c2f430477b55fa94e407917222caabf37a89a, stripped
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I have been researching how to install the Brave browser. It is more complicated on Linux than other OS. After watching a CNET video from 1/21/16. I am having second thoughts. It may have changed since the video was made but the plan then was for Brave to replace ads on sites with ones based on your browsing history. Don't like tracking to start with and sounds like it will eventually slow down the browser once it start showing its own ads.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=5155BflFE1s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5155BflFE1s)
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Running SeaMonkey with AdBlock Plus and I see almost no ads. An occasional one gets through, but I'll say I'm 99% ad free.
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I'm going to give Seamonkey a try. http://www.linuxliteos.com/forums/on-topic/browsers-in-lite/msg35356/?topicseen#msg35356 (http://www.linuxliteos.com/forums/on-topic/browsers-in-lite/msg35356/?topicseen#msg35356)
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I leave ads unblocked on sites I support, like LL Forums, Distrowatch, etc., and enable the adblocker (on Seamonkey) the rest of the time.
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I'm using opera and for now I find it quite good :). It uses less resources than chrome and firefox and after trying some of the "flags" which you can access by typing in the addressbar "opera://flags" and then you'll see a new set of "experimental features" you'll be warned to use at your own risk. However, I tried these ones:
*Warn about local, unknown roots
*Experimental canvas features
*Simple Cache for HTTP
*TCP Fast Open (Linux only)
*Number of raster threads
*FontCache scaling
And honestly, I must say that I fell opera a little bit smoother and faster, and it's even consuming less resources than before! In case some of you don't know about these "experimental features", which I think you should by now since they're being around for a little while, here's a link that you might find helpful: https://www.askvg.com/how-to-access-hidden-secret-advanced-configuration-pages-in-mozilla-firefox-google-chrome-and-opera-web-browsers/
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I tried Opera over the years and was never impressed by it. There were always lots of websites spouting the benefits of using opera and speed was always at the top of the list. I never found it to be any faster, and at times it was actually slower. It still has compatibility issues with some sites just like it always has. Now that it has been sold to a Chinese consortium I've made the decision to stay away from it. It's not that I'm "anti Chinese", but I'm not sure I'm all that comfortable using a browser owned and controlled by unknown Chinese companies either. Maybe if there were fewer companies involved and there was some transparency it would be different.
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I tried Opera over the years and was never impressed by it. There were always lots of websites spouting the benefits of using opera and speed was always at the top of the list. I never found it to be any faster, and at times it was actually slower. It still has compatibility issues with some sites just like it always has. Now that it has been sold to a Chinese consortium I've made the decision to stay away from it. It's not that I'm "anti Chinese", but I'm not sure I'm all that comfortable using a browser owned and controlled by unknown Chinese companies either. Maybe if there were fewer companies involved and there was some transparency it would be different.
I used to think about Opera the same as you do; I didn't like it, not a bit. I remember this one tedious feature it had: it always installed a searchbar which actually happened to be malware or adware, some kind of a virus, and it was a pain to get rid of it! I've used it in windows just to uninstall it right after, however, like I said I find it quite good in Linux Lite. Is there actually anything, something "company owned free"? I remember this article I read once about "security on the Internet" or something like that, whose author wisely stated: "If people are concerned about their security over the Internet, then they should reasonably consider not to use it at all" I've kept those words for myself ever after since :)
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"If people are concerned about their security over the Internet, then they should reasonably consider not to use it at all"
from Moltke
I always tell people about the same thing: "If you have a real secret don't ever keep it on a computer."
TC
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I understand the "copyrights" arguments for closed source software in specific / hardware related use.
But for a "standard" Internet browser, that really makes me itch and ask the question ... Why?
Is it just "old-school" business habits or is there something to hide behind the "free" mask? (Insert evil, cliff-hanger, music... Mouahaha!)
Also, people just need to realize (and accept I guess) that anytime you are "connected", be it Internet, Celllar, WiFi or even BlueTooth. You have an open security "risk". Thats one of the reasons why critical security systems like Nuclear Plants are closed and "stand-alone".
On a related note, I suggest reading the really interesting story about The Stuxnet virus Vs The Iran Nuclear Program.
Cheers!
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Now that it has been sold to a Chinese consortium I've made the decision to stay away from it. It's not that I'm "anti Chinese", but I'm not sure I'm all that comfortable using a browser owned and controlled by unknown Chinese companies either. Maybe if there were fewer companies involved and there was some transparency it would be different.
<snip>
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... It's not that I'm "anti Chinese", but I'm not sure I'm all that comfortable using a browser owned and controlled by unknown Chinese companies either. Maybe if there were fewer companies involved and there was some transparency it would be different.
I also am uncomfortable with using main land Chinese products like browsers, WPS, etc. I have no problem with Chinese people where ever they live. I am just uncomfortable with the main land Chinese government's possible involvement in internet and other communication devices that I use. I know my phone, computer parts, etc. maybe or are made in China. At least my phone is a dumb flip phone so it should be safe. ;D
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I also am uncomfortable with using main land Chinese products like browsers, WPS, etc. I have no problem with Chinese people where ever they live. I am just uncomfortable with the main land Chinese government's possible involvement in internet and other communication devices that I use. I know my phone, computer parts, etc. maybe or are made in China. At least my phone is a dumb flip phone so it should be safe. ;D
Well said. Probably better said than my own statement. The Chinese Government is actually what I am most fearful of with regards to the browser I use. I wasn't sure it was OK to even use the word "Government" on this forum. I belong to a couple other forums of a different genre that totally freak out if any discussion of politics taints their eyes.
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I tried Sea Monkey but little improvement over Firefox. Since I already had repo in Synaptic from installing Firefox. I gave the Mozilla Build of Firefox a try and uninstalled the Ubuntu add on which not enabled. Maybe a little improvement. I decided to stop wasting time trying different browser. I guess I was doing it over loyalty or nostalgia to Mozilla and Netscape. I am getting use to Chrome and it just works. Maybe when the new improved Firefox 57 Quantum on Nov 14, I can go back to Firefox.
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It's weird that you aren't seeing any major difference between Firefox and SeaMonkey. SeaMonkey is considerable faster on my laptop and a whole bunch more stable. Maybe it's the hardware. Could be a lot of things, I guess.
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Yup. What @smhardesty said. Seamonkey is whole bunches faster than Firefox on my 'puter. Midori is really fast too, but crashes at random (and always has been crashy on Ubuntu-based distros).
#MakeTheWebHTMLagain