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Updates via GUI - no indicator

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Updates via GUI - no indicator
« on: January 23, 2019, 02:53:54 AM »
 

Derek_

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Running updates via the GUI shows no progress indicator until it is finished.

It's highly likely that users will shutdown or reboot with the updates having only partially completed - not ideal.
 


Re: Updates via GUI - no indicator
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2019, 04:12:56 AM »
 

Jerry

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On what version? Now may be a good time to update your Forum Profile with a bit more info. Thanks.

It's highly likely that users will shutdown or reboot with the updates having only partially completed - not ideal. - I doubt that's even happening, otherwise we'd be inundated with support requests for broken updates that point to that exact issue.
 

Re: Updates via GUI - no indicator
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2019, 10:29:49 PM »
 

Derek_

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Hiya,

I'm using 4.2.. well, the computers i'm building for charity are using 4.2 (i'm not using Lite on my own PC). So far i've built 5 laptops and i didn't test it on all of them as i generally use the command line. But i definitely experienced it thrice - including just yesterday. The first time i experienced it, i didn't know it was doing stuff... and i rebooted. I can't remember what happened after that, but i 'noticed' it (i think it broke something and i had to -f or something.. sorry, it was a couple of weeks ago) and the next time i did it that way i paid attention. I fired up HTOP to see that updates were in fact running though there was nothing on the desktop to show it. I let it finish, whereupon it said it was done.

The third time was yesterday, checking before i made the post. Same deal.

All three were on different laptops.

Perhaps this should be moved to 'bugs', if its not expected behaviour.

EDIT: I've updated my profile, but short of stating i'm using 4.2 (which the profile seemed to have already) i can't specify much else. I have switched to Lite (from Ubuntu, which became too confusing for people with 18.04) and install it on all manner of hardware.
Last Edit: January 23, 2019, 10:39:59 PM by Derek_
 

Re: Updates via GUI - no indicator
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2019, 11:39:26 AM »
 

smhardesty

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Derek,

If I may be so bold, I'd like to suggest you load and keep one of the PCs you are building for charity. I also did this type of thing several years ago. I donated to a local Christian School and also to kids that would otherwise not be able to have one in home. Having a "reference PC" that you have worked out any problems on is a very useful tool.

My second comment would be in the form of a question. Why are you, or the recipients of the PCs, rebooting or shutting down so quickly after launching a system update? A reboot is not required in most cases of updates. You did note in your post that you are seeing an end of update indicator when running via GUI. Maybe some brief instruction to the recipients of the PC regarding looking for the end of update is in order? Just a thought.

If you are unable to find a suitable solution using basic, conventional means, try looking into the tweaked Mint Update Manager that Ralphy has provided us.
Steve

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Re: Updates via GUI - no indicator
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2019, 05:44:32 AM »
 

Derek_

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My second comment would be in the form of a question. Why are you, or the recipients of the PCs, rebooting or shutting down so quickly after launching a system update? A reboot is not required in most cases of updates. You did note in your post that you are seeing an end of update indicator when running via GUI. Maybe some brief instruction to the recipients of the PC regarding looking for the end of update is in order? Just a thought.

Hi smhardesty (catchy name) :)

Because there's no indication its doing anything, one just assumes its finished (or there wasn't anything to update).

If you are unable to find a suitable solution using basic, conventional means, try looking into the tweaked Mint Update Manager that Ralphy has provided us.

What kind of conventional means? It seems this is the first people have heard/reported it - but i had it on three separate laptops. If there's a known workaround, i'd love to try it and report back.

I usually update via the Terminal, but i doubt a single recipient of these laptops would.
 

Re: Updates via GUI - no indicator
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2019, 11:51:49 AM »
 

smhardesty

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I'll attempt to tackle each concern and clarify best I can.


Quote
Because there's no indication its doing anything, one just assumes its finished (or there wasn't anything to update).

I won't bother with the whole assume thing. Let's tackle the issue. You, yourself stated that you ran the update and after a short period you did receive notification that the update was done. I made sure to run "Lite Updates" on this laptop right before I started typing these responses. My system happened to be up to date so I received a window that clearly indicated to me that the update was indeed completed and that my system was up to date. The window had only a single "OK" button that closed it. I could start listing a lot of "actions" taken either on a computer or in some other aspect of life where you wouldn't "assume" the action or task were complete until you were notified, or in some other fashion absolutely certain it had finished.


Quote
What kind of conventional means? It seems this is the first people have heard/reported it - but i had it on three separate laptops. If there's a known workaround, i'd love to try it and report back.

Probably not the best choice of terminology, but I was trying to be kind and courteous. By "basic, conventional means" I was referring to taking the time to instruct new users of the OS what they might expect when launching "Lite Updates". If you are turning these donated laptops over to a bunch of younger users that have never before seen a Linux installation, there MUST BE a minimum of instruction. It seems many Windows users first switching to Linux expect whatever distro they have chosen to either be completely self explanatory and intuitive, or be exactly like Windows. Not a single one of those Windows users fell out of bed one day and sat down at a Windows PC and never had to ask a single question. Each and every one of them received instruction of some sort from some person or entity.


Quote
I usually update via the Terminal, but i doubt a single recipient of these laptops would.

I have, and continue to, update in 4 different ways. I primarily use the updater supplied by Ralphy, but on occasion update via command line, "Lite Updates", or Synaptic, but what you and I do aren't your primary concern, or that is what you have stated. Your concern seems to be with these laptop recipients.
.
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Re: Updates via GUI - no indicator
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2019, 05:29:18 PM »
 

Derek_

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I won't bother with the whole assume thing. Let's tackle the issue. You, yourself stated that you ran the update and after a short period you did receive notification that the update was done. I made sure to run "Lite Updates" on this laptop right before I started typing these responses. My system happened to be up to date so I received a window that clearly indicated to me that the update was indeed completed and that my system was up to date. The window had only a single "OK" button that closed it. I could start listing a lot of "actions" taken either on a computer or in some other aspect of life where you wouldn't "assume" the action or task were complete until you were notified, or in some other fashion absolutely certain it had finished.

Here's what's happening: The updates are still installing (as one can see in HTOP), but there is no GUI indicator that i can see that the updates are still installing. It does eventually tell me when it's finished. That's just not typical behaviour. A progress indicator is typical behaviour.


Probably not the best choice of terminology, but I was trying to be kind and courteous. By "basic, conventional means" I was referring to taking the time to instruct new users of the OS what they might expect when launching "Lite Updates". If you are turning these donated laptops over to a bunch of younger users that have never before seen a Linux installation, there MUST BE a minimum of instruction. It seems many Windows users first switching to Linux expect whatever distro they have chosen to either be completely self explanatory and intuitive, or be exactly like Windows. Not a single one of those Windows users fell out of bed one day and sat down at a Windows PC and never had to ask a single question. Each and every one of them received instruction of some sort from some person or entity.

Sigh. It's just not normal behaviour for there to be no progress indicator.  Should there be a progress indicator or not? Is this a bug or expected behaviour? Is it unique to my builds? Are you able to verify that this happens on your device/s?
 

Re: Updates via GUI - no indicator
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2019, 06:47:33 PM »
 

TheDead

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1.
Here's what's happening: The updates are still installing (as one can see in HTOP), but there is no GUI indicator that i can see that the updates are still installing. It does eventually tell me when it's finished. That's just not typical behaviour. A progress indicator is typical behaviour.

I have not personnaly seen this behavior but, throwing ideas :
The window should not close before finishing indeed. There is a "work" windows but no a progress bar, circle, etc. per say.
But... it could maybe be minimized and/or not showing in the bottom bar if there's a bug or configuration change in the bottom bar.
Also, if multiple desktops are used, it could be happily running on another desktop and you will not see it at all unless switching to the appropriate one.

Hope my blabbering will help! ;)

Cheers!
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Re: Updates via GUI - no indicator
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2019, 07:22:01 PM »
 

smhardesty

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After reading your responses, it's just not worth responding again. You got your reply, and it was brutally honest. In the event you are unaware, as it obviously apparent, you have the option if building your very own Linux distro with each and every option you choose. Secondly, you can tweak any distro, including this one, and create an ISO image to install on as many laptops as you choose.

I suggest you explore those options since Lite isn't and won't be a big, bulky, do all distribution. It is intended to be an easy to use, simple way for Windows users to switch to Linux. It meets that goal. If you want kids never exposed to Linux to be able to install "billions" of "apps", teach them to use Synaptic. Since you intend to have absolutely ZERO contact with these kids, it would be interesting to know how you expect them to learn, or even know, this. Good luck. ;-)
Steve

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Re: Updates via GUI - no indicator
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2019, 11:23:36 PM »
 

Jerry

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@Derek_ do a screen recording of this 'no progress indicator' on Install Updates, record the whole thing start to finish.
 

Re: Updates via GUI - no indicator
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2019, 02:56:03 AM »
 

Derek_

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@Derek_ do a screen recording of this 'no progress indicator' on Install Updates, record the whole thing start to finish.

Hi Jerry, that's a good idea/exercise (i've never done it before).

Just a note, i updated another laptop today and it did the same thing. I think that's 4 out of 4 now (maybe 5)? As i've only updated that one today it'll take me a while to get back to you with a screen record.

@TheDead - i hadn't thought of it switching to a different Workspace. I'm not using multiple Workspaces when i go through this exercise, but i guess it is possible its flipping there somehow. I'll keep an eye out for that too.
 

Re: Updates via GUI - no indicator
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2019, 03:30:47 AM »
 

stevef

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Greetings,

I have two linux lite machines one running 3.8 and one on 4.0.  I've noticed that they behave differently when using the update GUI which I habitually run on first power up of the day from the 'Welcome to Linux Lite' pop up.  Both machines proceed similarly through the first few clicks.

After entering the password, both machines show the 'Updating Software Sources' window which shows the 'get' activity and then display the 'Updates Available' list window.

After selecting 'update now' at this point the behaviour differs.

The 3.8 machine displays 'Downloading - please wait' window with a progress bar.
This switches to an 'Installing - please wait' window with an activity indicator.
Finally, the 'Completed - success' window appears with the option to view the log.

On the 4.0 machine, if I watch carefully, the 'Downloading - please wait' window appears but it self clears very quickly (blink and you'd miss it).
This is the case even when there is a significant download e.g. a new version of Firefox.
I've not seen an 'installing' window and nothing appears to be happening until the 'updates completed successfully' window pops up.

I've never re-booted during the update but at least once (before I got used to it) I restarted the update process on the 4.0 machine during the 'silent' downloading/installing phase because I'd got confused what was happening.

The only other difference I've noticed is that at the 'enter password' window, 3.8 says the application is /usr/scripts/updates-gui and 4.0 says the application is /usr/bin/lite-updates.
 

Re: Updates via GUI - no indicator
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2019, 03:09:39 AM »
 

Derek_

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@Derek_ do a screen recording of this 'no progress indicator' on Install Updates, record the whole thing start to finish.

Sorry it's been too long. Here's the screenrecord (it's too big to attach, at 2mb).

https://mega.nz/#!GEZkDC6a!HPK-CMD8NudAVS53u5W0p3kmEQDA-NRtFzYJV4-Fevg
 

Re: Updates via GUI - no indicator
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2019, 03:11:08 AM »
 

Derek_

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On the 4.0 machine, if I watch carefully, the 'Downloading - please wait' window appears but it self clears very quickly (blink and you'd miss it).
This is the case even when there is a significant download e.g. a new version of Firefox.
I've not seen an 'installing' window and nothing appears to be happening until the 'updates completed successfully' window pops up.


Yup. That's it.
 

Re: Updates via GUI - no indicator
« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2019, 03:17:07 AM »
 

Jerry

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@Derek_ I'd like to know the spec of the computer you made that recording on, looks like it was really struggling. Cpu, ram, gpu etc.
 


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