LL 3.8 Win-XP Dual-Boot

[stevef]

@W-Exit

Gunter

sorry to bother you again mate.

No problem, happy to try to help provided it is understood that this can only be general advice about process and not a discussion of unsupported OS etc..

First, ensure any important data has been saved somewhere safe before proceeding.
Then you need to decide what you want to do.  Here are some choices, one of them may be right for you.
If not, let us know exactly what you want.

1) Simplest - Do Nothing.
Your system boots ok from the SSD and there is plenty of disk space to not worry about the partitioning.
Changing the BIOS boot order to promote the SSD to the top of the list would improve the boot time.

2) Still simple - wipe the disk and start again with no special partitioning.
Normally this will be the 'Erase Disk and Install Linux' choice.  Many people do it this way without a problem, but because you have untidy partitioning in place, it is possible the installer may struggle and it will be more predictable if the partitions are cleared before invoking the installer. To do this, it is necessary to boot from the Live media and use Gparted to delete any partitions you find and then install a fresh system onto the blank disk.
This will allow the OS installer of the distro you select to use the whole disk for the OS and your data.

3) Complex - wipe the disk as option 2 but re-partition it before installing the OS.
This allows the OS and your data to exist on different partitions of the same disk.
Keeping OS and data separate may have some advantages.  This would require the 'Something Else' choice.  It is easy to make an error here.

4) Most complex - Try to tidy up the partitioning without re-installing.
I can't see any benefit in trying this unless options 1,2 or 3 are impractical.

If I understand correct I can ´delete´sda7 and sda6 (both ext4) ??
 which should leave sda2 (extended) intact ??
 Or do I need to format sda2 as ext4 (??)
 here it comes, my I don't know what to do.
 will sda2 still be available (for data storage) after deleting sda6 and sda7 ??
 in other words: Deleting sda6 and ada7 will create free, unused space ??
 Which i can assign to sda2 ??
 I would imagine the actual LL-Sys (booting with no USB) resides on sda1 (ext4) ??

I think these questions are relevant with option 4 which is not recommended unless you can really justify the time and effort required.

Or was it better to do a complete re-install (trying to recollect the complete SSD) ??
 Meaning: Delete sda1 as well ??

Yes, this would be option 2 (or maybe option 3)

If so YES, how would I force this after the USB - boot ??

 I am asking, because I tried this before and ended with the mess I am currently facing.

Boot from the Live USB, use gparted to clean the disk up and then install the supported OS to the clean disk.
If all goes well, it will install the OS correctly.  It is hard to guess how you have ended up with the partition set up you have, maybe you did it via the 'Something Else' option

Please note: The grandpa never stored his data on the Sys-Boot device (even so it was partitions on the same HD only)
 which saved my life more than once !!

I think this would be option 3 if I understand correctly.

steve

[W-Exit]

@stevef

Hi Sir,

 sorry to bother you again mate.

 If I understand correct I can ´delete´sda7 and sda6 (both ext4) ??

 which should leave sda2 (extended) intact ??
 Or do I need to format sda2 as ext4 (??)

 here it comes, my I don't know what to do. 

 will sda2 still be available (for data storage) after deleting sda6 and sda7 ??

 in other words: Deleting sda6 and ada7 will create free, unused space ??
 Which i can assign to sda2 ??

 I would imagine the actual LL-Sys (booting with no USB) resides on sda1 (ext4) ??

 Or was it better to do a complete re-install (trying to recollect the complete SSD) ??
 Meaning: Delete sda1 as well ??
 If so YES, how would I force this after the USB - boot ??

 I am asking, because I tried this before and ended with the mess I am currently facing.

 Please note: The grandpa never stored his data on the Sys-Boot device (even so it was partitions on the same HD only)
 which saved my life more than once !!

best regards, many thanks and all the best
Gunter

 

[stevef]

UEFI was started in 2006 but I think your machine will be BIOS only so any advice about UEFI won't apply.

I guess there was something wrong with the CD.

Now you can boot off USB Live media, you can tidy up the partitioning as described in earlier posts 7 and 10

Basically right click on each partition's pictogram in turn and select 'delete'
Once all the partitions are queued for delete click 'apply' and gparted will remove them to blank the disk.

Once you have blanked the disk, please install a supported OS.

[W-Exit]

@stevef

 hi again.
 Will try to write a brand new Boot-CD (or even try a USB).
 To the other question of a SSD in the ancient sys ??
 Me I am a civil engineer (with main focus on POWER, online since CPU type 8086) and I had an electrical engineer colleague (unfortunately not with us any more) who saw this SSD lying around my table when the HD in the LT was broken.
 So he mounted it (I guess he altered the BIOS, I have more boot options than original). I would not know the details how he achieved this, but he did.

 It was flawlessly working for many years, astonishingly fast (for it's HW) and served me well with few old Win-XP programs not working fine under more actual Win versions - or a VM.

 I am emotionally very attached to this piece of Hardware, otherwise I was not here on my crusade to rescue it.

 It will take some time for the next reply / question
 However, my-CD's  are spinning, the LED are flashing and I can hear the read attempts.
 I can manually adjust the boot-order in BIOS and set the internal CD-drive first.

 It takes ages to get anywhere, but in the end it will always boot from the SSD.
 (Hence I have no chance to manipulate anything with gparted)

 Just today I read somewhere that UEFI might have something to do with not booting the life-media.
 I read quote: 'disable Secure Boot' and set UEFI enabled, however I can't find these options.
 I still have the iso and would want to try making an bootable life USB to try ....
 (need to go out and get some HW first !!)

 Also I will try to furnish a ScreenShot of my Bios Setup Boot Order (but this is little difficult to achieve)
 

many thanks again and all the best
Gunter

p.s.: I managed to create a boot-able USB (??)
Had to go with RUFUS (old version) since Balena-Etcher won't work on my system (don't know why)
managed to boot from usb
and to start gparted from terminal
I am enclosing another ScreenShot (SS) at this point ...

This means I have reached the point where I need advice on how to straighten out my SSD partitioning mess - and how to do so !!

Maybe someone can step in at this point ??

Any guidance appreciated !!
best regards
Gunter

[stevef]

@W-Exit
Gunter

As you have had the live media CD working before and the system BIOS has been set to allow booting from the CD (above booting from the SSD) then the CD should boot.

Do you hear any sounds when booting as the CD drive gets up to speed or perhaps the sound of the head seeking across the disk ?
Are there any activity LEDs on the CD drive ?  They should flash as the drive is accessed.

If the CD appears to be accessed (sound and LED) and the system later boots off the SSD then it suggests the system couldn't find boot code on the CD.  It could be scratched, dirty or even upside down in the drive.  The only thing I can suggest is trying the live media CD on another system if you have one available.

If the CD isn't being accessed during boot up (no sounds or LED) it suggests something wrong with the BIOS settings.

It would be good to resolve what is happening, but as mentioned before, if the system boots ok from the SSD the untidy partitioning is not a worry.

Out of interest, how did an XP machine dating back to the mid 2000s get fitted with a 500GB SSD ?  If I had a 500GB SSD I wouldn't  even think to be using it on a 20 year old system.

As always - please use a supported OS.

steve

[W-Exit]

@stevef

 Hi there

 and many thanks again.
 I think I sorted notifications, and SreenShot Uploads 

 I have been trying to ´boot´ from same CD I used for initial install ....
 .... in order such to eventually sort my SSD defrag-mess.

Actually it is the same media which put me where I am (a loss of understanding)

since I am not getting anywhere. In the end it always boots from SSD.

Please: I went into BIOS boot sequence and put boot_from CD first, to no avail.

kindly excuse the retired Grandpa for his blindness / alzheimer
best regards
Gunter
 
P.s: Sorry, only now I noted that there is a new message ....

[Şerban S.]

@W-Exit

Hi, Gunther!

[...] LL is installed on the SSD, I am not booting from a live-media.
There is no data of any value on this SSD, other than the OS. So a complete "re-format" would not do any harm. [...]

This is very important to know!
From your posts, I learned at least three things:
1. You are a LEARNER!
2. You are a fast learner! This is one of the  most valuable assets  a human being can have and develop!
3. You are a diligent person and a persistent one!

With those being said:
Stop worrying! You already have all you need INSIDE of you!

What you need now, is practice!

First thing and the most important now:
You need to practice using the following distros:
1. GPartEd Live. This is the key tool in storage management, either for running any OS or for managing mass storage media, even small storage like USB sticks and SD cards (or whatever card). Used to create, delete, and manage partition tables, and logical drives on various media.

2.CloneZilla Live.. This is the key tool for managing low-level backups. Low-level backups, means bit-by-bit copies of a certain portion of a drive ("disk" or "partition") or even entire drives (I never used that, except for test & learn purposes). Copies of an entire drive are usually called "clones", hence the name of the toolkit.

Now, let's see what we have here:

[...] With ´gparted´ I am not really getting anywhere, other than I manage to start it.
It will show exact the a.m. partitions, but does not allow me to do anything with them. [...]

Using GPartEd on an active drive.

I guess @stevef explained clearly enough why you had trouble.
In order to do anything with a drive, you need to access it via GPartEd Live..
That means you have to boot a bootable USB stick, with the GPartEd Live. ISO written on it.
After booting GPartEd Live, you will be presented the same screen, except for the options available.
In this case, you can delete any partition, even the entire drive.
Since you have a very old computer (2005), it has a BIOS firmware and the only partition type available, is MSDOS.
You can skip the step "Create New Partition Table".

Now, let's look at the disk structure:


1. /dev/sda1, ext4, 117 GB;
2. /dev/sda2, extended, 348 GB;
3. /dev/sda6, ext4, 230 GB;
4. /dev/sda5, SWAP, 2 GB;

What you need to do now for a fresh install, is (A) Delete all partitions (logical drives).
The exact order, is as follows:

1. /dev/sda5, SWAP, 2 GB;
2. /dev/sda6, ext4, 230 GB;
3. /dev/sda2, extended, 348 GB;
4. /dev/sda1, ext4, 117 GB;

After scheduling the operations, click the "Apply" button, confirm the operations and wait for completion.
Being a slow computer, might take a bit longer.
After completion, your drive will be empty. This shows as "Unallocated" (se the screen capture, last entry).
Now, we need to create the partitions.
I will layout here three scenarios:

A. The Partitions

The entire drive, has 488,281 MB.

1. /dev/sda1, ext4, primary, / (Root), 30720 MB  Flag = boot;
1. /dev/sda2, SWAP, primary,  4096 MB;

488,281 - 30,720 - 4,096 = 453,915 MB left.

3. /dev/sda3, primary, extended, 453,915 MB;
4. /dev/sda5, ext4, primary, /home, 453,915 MB;



B: "Quick install" 

This scenario, means that you will use the default Install Scenario, which is "Erase entire disk and install Linux Lite".
In case you want a slightly different setup, here it is:

From the Installer menu, instead of choosing the default scenario, choose "Something different".
You will be presented the Partition Manager window.

Choose from within Partition Manager "/dev/sda1", than "Change", use the drive as ext4, mountpoint /.
Check "Format partition".
Choose  /dev/sda2 , than "Change", use partition as LINUX-SWAP.
Choose  /dev/sda5 , than "Change", use partition as ext4, mountpoint  /home..

Proceed with the installation.
Default GRUB installation should be "/dev/sda".
The downside of this setup is that your personal data will be in the /home partition, along with many other system things.
It is very much like the Windows "My Documents".
Also, when you perform a low-level backup (CloneZilla) the amount of data will be huge.

C: "Pro Install" 

I use this kind of partition layout, regardless the BIOS/UEFI type of firmware. That is, regardless the partition type: MSDOS or GPT (Global Partitioning Table).
The exception is on the type of the first partition, because GPT requires a boot partition, which is FAT32, and is flagged "boot, esp".
The rest of the partitioning scheme, is the same.

1. /dev/sda1, ext4, primary, / (Root), 30720 MB  Flag = boot;
1. /dev/sda2, SWAP, primary,  4096 MB;

488,281 - 30,720 - 4,096 = 453,915 MB left.

4. /dev/sda3, ext4, primary, /home, 61,440 MB;
453,915 - 61,440 = 392,475 MB
4. /dev/sda4, ext4, primary, /mydata, 392,475 MB;

As you can see, I skipped the "extended" partition since I planned to use only four partitions, which is the maximum amount of partitions allowed by the MSDOS partition table.

During the install procedure, I need to set the mountpoints, accordingly to the new scheme.
This allows me to have mounted all the listed drives (/, /home and /mydata).
Besides that, my data is stored in a different location, that I can backup using LuckyBackup, which is a frontend (GUI) for the rsync tool.
This can be done from within the current session, without the need to boot any external tool such as CloneZilla Live, for one.
The advantage of CloneZilla over TimeShift, is the small size of the backup. But this is a matter of taste/habits...

Best regards, Șerban.

[stevef]

@W-Exit
Gunter

so LL is installed on the SSD, I am not booting from a live-media.

If the system boots from the SSD to Linux Lite (without live media) - yes, you have a working system.

With ´gparted´ I am not really getting anywhere, other than I manage to start it.
It will show exact the a.m. partitions, but does not allow me to do anything with them.

Gparted won't let you change partitions if they are 'mounted' and because the system booted from the SSD, some partitions are in use.

I suggested booting the live media and running gparted (if you wish to tidy the disk up) because in that case none of the partition would be mounted.
The partitioning you have is untidy but if the system functions as you want it to and you have given up on dual booting I'd suggest not to worry.

Apparently I found out how to receive a notification - message

I think an email is generated if the poster puts your username in their reply.

Please don't run unsupported OS.  As there is no support the system and applications will be unpatched against any vulnerabilities.

Steve

[W-Exit]

@stevef

Hi Steve,

firstly I include the output of cmd ´lblsk´ (still I would not know how to post a screen-shot ??), which is:

linuxlite@linuxlite-AMILO-Pro-V2060:~$ lsblk
NAME   MAJ:MIN RM   SIZE RO TYPE MOUNTPOINT
sda      8:0    0 465,8G  0 disk
├─sda1   8:1    0   117G  0 part
├─sda5   8:5    0     2G  0 part [SWAP]
├─sda6   8:6    0   230G  0 part
└─sda7   8:7    0 116,8G  0 part /
sr0     11:0    1 701,9M  0 rom 
linuxlite@linuxlite-AMILO-Pro-V2060:~$

so LL is installed on the SSD, I am not booting from a live-media.

There is no data of any value on this SSD, other than the OS. So a complete "re-format" would not do any harm.

However, I've tried to do this before and ended with what I have now.

With ´gparted´ I am not really getting anywhere, other than I manage to start it.
It will show exact the a.m. partitions, but does not allow me to do anything with them.
Still (again) I miserably fail to post a screen-shot, sorry for that.


^^^ I am trying !! But I have no clue I understood and am doing it right !!



best regards and many thanks for advice and patience
Gunter

P.s.: Apparently I found out how to receive a notification - message. 

[stevef]

@W-Exit

Obviously the advice below is general advice which is applicable to installing a supported OS.
The advice assumes there is nothing on the disk of any value - any data will be lost.

Trying to use a standard installer can get complicated if a disk has been used before.
In your situation, I would try to remove all the existing partitions.
This will give a blank page for the install software.

After booting the live media, run this command in a terminal

Code: [Select]

lsblkThis will show the partition information of the SSD (and other block devices) which should make identifying the SSD partitions in the gparted GUI slightly easier.

Then run gparted.  Ensure the 'scattered' 500GB disk is selected and that the partition pictogram matches that you saw in the terminal.

Right click on each existing partition pictogram in turn.
From the menu that appears select 'Delete'.  This will 'queue' the action.
Repeat the right click and delete on the next partition pictogram.

Once all the partitions are queued for deleting, click 'Apply' and allow gparted to complete.
Then re-run the terminal command to confirm they are gone.

[W-Exit]

@Șerban S.
@Serban

 Hi Serban,

 thanks a lot for the reply. I fully agree, accept and understand your points.

 To be honest: I have given up on the "Dual Boot" idea.

 I would be perfectly happy if I could get the LinuxLite 3.8 double install and resulting scattered SSD issue (kindly see attached ScreenShot) settled.

 I would not mind to do another re-install of LL 3.8 if there is a chance that this would settle the issue ...
 ... but I am afraid that this would only further mess-up my SSD.

kind regards and many thanks
Gunter

P.s.: I miserably fail to attach the screenshot, it is more than double the size of the 500KB limit
also it was of format *.png / *.bmp

The suggested ´inxi´ command delivers:
linuxlite@linuxlite-AMILO-Pro-V2060:~$ sudo inxi -c 0 -ACdGMNSz
[sudo] password for linuxlite:
System:    Host: linuxlite-AMILO-Pro-V2060 Kernel: 4.4.0-112-generic i686 (32 bit)
           Desktop: Xfce 4.12.3 Distro: Ubuntu 16.04 xenial
Machine:   System: FUJITSU SIEMENS (portable) product: AMILO Pro V2060 v: 20
           Mobo: FUJITSU SIEMENS model: AMILO Pro V2060
           Bios: Phoenix v: R01-A1H date: 12/14/2005
CPU:       Single core Intel Pentium M (-UP-) cache: 2048 KB
           speed: 1867 MHz (max)
Graphics:  Card: Intel Mobile 915GM/GMS/910GML Express Graphics Controller
           Display Server: X.org 1.18.4 drivers: intel (unloaded: fbdev,vesa)
           tty size: 80x24 Advanced Data: N/A for root
Audio:     Card Intel 82801FB/FBM/FR/FW/FRW (ICH6 Family) High Definition Audio Controller
           driver: snd_hda_intel
           Sound: Advanced Linux Sound Architecture v: k4.4.0-112-generic
Network:   Card-1: Intel PRO/Wireless 2200BG [Calexico2] Network Connection
           driver: ipw2200
           Card-2: Realtek RTL8169 PCI Gigabit Ethernet Controller
           driver: r8169
Drives:    HDD Total Size: 500.1GB (1.3% used)
           ID-1: /dev/sda model: SanDisk_SDSSDH35 size: 500.1GB
           Optical: /dev/sr0 model: _NEC DVD_RW ND-6750A
           dev-links: cdrom,cdrw,dvd,dvdrw
           Features: speed: 24x multisession: yes
           audio: yes dvd: yes rw: cd-r,cd-rw,dvd-r

[Şerban S.]

Hi, Gunther!

@stevef
[...] Yes the guess for 32 bit version question is right. [...]

Based on the data you provided, I found this:
CPU is surely an Intel® Pentium® M (inxi report).
It appears that for the model AMILO-Pro-V2060 the CPU is Intel® Pentium® M Processor 750
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/sku/27593/intel-pentium-m-processor-750-2m-cache-1-86-ghz-533-mhz-fsb/specifications.html

 I ran the: ´inxi -CDxxxx´command, but the return does not show any ´bits´ statement.

Better run the following and repost the report here (same procedure):

Code: [Select]

sudo inxi -c 0 -ACdGMNSz

[...] @Serban S.
My system does not allow me to enter an accented "S", hence I don't find / ping you .... sorry. [...]

It's OK. For entering special characters like "Ș" you need a different keyboard layout. I have two layouts installed (RO & EN-US).
Same here, for umlaut u. Spelling "G"  umlaut u "nther" is at least weird...

[...] As far as I (am guessing) understand I installed LL (Linux Lite) 3.8 accidentally 2x hence the HD (here a 500 GB SSD) is scattered a lot

But please forgive me my lag of expertise, I am still learning
and I would want to repurpose this LT e.g. have both OS's Win-XP and LL 3.8 installed side by side with dual-boot option.

"Lack of expertise" you say?
Well, I doubt there is anyone here that claims being an expert.
At least I have a hard time thinking myself as being an "expert". That's too much to say.
Except for Jerry, I doubt there are many people here having that kind of knowledge + practice to entitle them using this "expert" word.
I like the idea that we are here, like-minded, friendly people. That sounds more comforting to me.

Repurposing...
While I understand the idea, it's very difficult for me to figure out how to get software for this architecture.
The software you named (Win XP, Linux Lite 3.8 ) is "out of service", so to speak. In other words, they reached the "end of support" (end of life) point.
If something breaks, it will be awfully difficult to maintain those, without data losses.
Even finding software, generally speaking, is very difficult since developers moved towards 64 bit architecture.
As far as I know, there are a few choices still available as if today:

https://www.makeuseof.com/linux-distros-with-32-bit-support/

Maybe for some time, you can use your computer with one of those.

Best regards, Șerban.

[stevef]

Gunter,

Thank you for responding and taking the trouble to extract the information for us.
The inxi command shows your CPU type even if it does not report the 'bits' information.

As far as I can tell, the single core Intel Pentium M CPU dates back to 2003 and was only ever 32 bit.

Unfortunately all current versions of Linux Lite require 64 bit hardware.
We cannot recommend installing the older 32 bit versions of Linux Lite like Lite 3.8 as they are not supported since 2021.

Last time I checked (a couple of months ago) there were still a few Linux distributions which claimed to be 32 bit compatible.
The rules of this forum ask us not to discuss/recommend other brands so I'll not go further.

I wish you good luck.

steve

[W-Exit]

@stevef
Hi there and many thanks for the reply. I am checking the online version of this page from time to time (I don't get a notification sent and would not know how to arrange for this)

 Yes the guess for 32bit version question is right.

 I ran the: ´inxi -CDxxxx´command, but the return does not show any ´bits´ statement.

linuxlite@linuxlite-AMILO-Pro-V2060:~$ inxi -CDxxx
CPU:       Single core Intel Pentium M (-UP-) cache: 2048 KB
           flags: (nx pae sse sse2) bmips: 3724 speed/min/max: 1867/800/1867 MHz
Drives:    HDD Total Size: 531.6GB (1.2% used)
           ID-1: /dev/sda model: SanDisk_SDSSDH35 size: 500.1GB serial: 181281803876
           ID-2: USB /dev/sdb model: Basic_Line size: 31.5GB serial: 4040661026806312-0:0
linuxlite@linuxlite-AMILO-Pro-V2060:~$

Please excuse my "leaner-style" reply and the reply time needed.
It took me a while to figure out how to get the output of (the other PC -Laptop, other OS Linux) onto an USB stick and then to this Forum's page, other PC and OS again

@Serban S.
My system does not allow me to enter an accented "S", hence I don't find / ping you .... sorry.
As far as I (am guessing) understand I installed LL (Linux Lite) 3.8 accidentally 2x
hence the HD (here a 500 GB SSD) is scattered a lot

But please forgive me my lag of expertise, I am still learning
and I would want to repurpose this LT e.g. have both OS's Win-XP and LL 3.8 installed side by side with dual-boot option.

best regards and many thanks
Gunter

[Şerban S.]

Hi!

As Steve pointed out, we need more information in order to figure out how far can we go.
Now in order to do so, you have to be able to perform the task outlined by Steve in the previous post.
You will need a second USB stick, besides the one with the Linux Lite .ISO.
When you copy the output, you have to paste it somewhere.
Since the ISO is "Read-Only", you need some extra-space to save the file.
Now, assuming you got the result from the inxi command, you need to put it into a file.
Go to the Menu and search for "Mousepad" or "Leafpad". It is a simple text editor.
Start it. In the editing field, perform the "Paste" operation then save the file as "Sysconfig-inxi.txt" on the second USB stick.
After that, you can open the file and on the computer you used to post here, go to the same type of App.
If it's a Windows computer, look for "Notepad", open the file and repeat the Copy operation than paste the contents here, in a post.
We'll see what we can do.
Given the level of information we have now, the only thing I found is this:

https://sp.ts.fujitsu.com/dmsp/Publications/public/ds-AMILO-N-Li-3710.pdf

Now, assuming that the class of your machine is either exactly one of those or a very close variation, it is a 64 bit CPU. Roughly speaking, that means that you can install Linux Lite 6.6.
I have an ASUS X200MA, with a similar configuration but with only 2 GB of RAM and at the time of writing, it runs Linux Lite 6.6.
The performance is still acceptable, in spite of its age (2015 UEFI/BIOS specs).
On a 4 GB RAM machine and a dual-core / core2duo, you'll get better results.

Best regards, Șerban!