Linux Lite Forums
Hardware - Support => Video Cards => Topic started by: neil on January 25, 2018, 11:11:27 AM
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Hi. I'm a noob, so I'm sorry if I appear stupid, but can anyone help me?
At native res. (1080 x 1920, 60Hz) the screen flashes, seemingly at random.
At 1080 x 1920 24 Hz it's okay, but frames are missing, of course.
At 1080 x 1920 other speeds, pic a little blurry and flashes.
Same problem when I tried Ubuntu.
All works fine with XP.
Mobo is Trigem/Advent, chipset: i848/ i865, i865p
Graphics ATI 128MB, DVI out
Screen is Panasonic TV, HDMI in
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Does it do this with a regular pc monitor and not a TV?
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Hi Jerry. Thanks for your reply.
I don't have a monitor to try it with, only three different TVs. I could try with my son's 1080p TV.
It's fine at 720p, either DVI to HDMI or DVI to HD15 into my Panasonic TV, no need for 24Hz.
I could probably borrow an old 720 monitor from a neighbour. Should I do that?
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I could probably borrow an old 720 monitor from a neighbour. Should I do that?
Yes, anything but a TV. TV's and Monitors aren't as similar as people presume. It must be a pc monitor (LCD or LED)
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TV's do have some quirks regarding resolutions and refresh rates, different TV's can bring different results. The VGA in part of a TV was only designed with basic usage in mind as a afterthought.
You would do better setting up on a proper monitor and then try your TV, you would also gain some knowledge of your TV's quirks and nuances that way.
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Sorry, no monitor, Jerry.
I tried with Samsung 1080p TV and it's fine at 60HZ. DVI into HDMI.
So, it's a quirk of my Panasonic TV? Can anything be done?
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@ptyerman explained it well.
Remember this...right tool for the right job :)
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Okay, thank you both!
I've got one! A Plain Tree Systems 17" 1280x1024, 60.0Hz. From the VGA output, all works fine.
What should I do now?
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What should I do now?
Pop off down the road to the Pub and enjoy a pint.
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'Pop off down the road to the Pub and enjoy a pint.'
No, this little monitor is dire. I want to watch films on my awesome, big TV. I could go back to XP and do that.
@pyterman, 'You would do better setting up on a proper monitor and then try your TV, you would also gain some knowledge of your TV's quirks and nuances that way.'
Please tell me more about this!
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It would help to know exactly what video card you actually have. I know from experience that a really old ati 128mb card will not do the resolution you are trying to get. This was one of the issue I ran into with the Supergamer and video cards. I had to add a lot of resolutions to cover more cards and people using tv's as monitors. You may try a lower resolution like 1366x768 and see if the flickering goes away. Honestly though, xorg 6.9 was a lot more forgiving and easier to work with but that is my rant.
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Hi supergamer.
The card is capable of 1080x1920 resolution: it works fine on my son's TV and LL, and it works with my TV and XP.
It works with my TV and LL and lower resolution or lower refresh rate.
It's the best card available for this 2003 mobo, but by no means a gaming card.
It says: R9250 128M 64-BIT DDR AGP VGA/TVO/DVI-I PN 188-ORC26-01FSA SKU 11046-62
edit: TV is Panasonic TX-L37S20BA
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XP is dated
October 25, 2001
Windows XP (codenamed Whistler) is a personal computer operating system that was produced by Microsoft as part of the Windows NT family of operating systems. It was released to manufacturing on August 24, 2001, and broadly released for retail sale on October 25, 2001.
Comparing apples and pineapples here. Older computers run OK on XP. Try this stuff on Windows 10 and report back.
Have you tried using the vga port on that panasonic TV? Instead of hdmi? My 41 incher TV runs excellent on LL 2.8 on my Dell dual core server. But my video card is different from yours.
Throw out a
xrander report to supply better detail as well as a
inxi -Fxz
report. I'd change it from hdmi to vga 1st though.
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Hi rokytnji. Thanks for your reply.
Max. res. on VGA is smaller than 1080p. That works fine, but I want the full res. and full refresh rate, hence the DVI-HDMI.
This is an old computer, 2003, 32-bit, XP. It was pretty good in its day. It's maxed-out.
linuxlite@linuxlite-Advent-Series:~$ xrandr
Screen 0: minimum 320 x 200, current 1920 x 1080, maximum 4096 x 4096
VGA-0 disconnected (normal left inverted right x axis y axis)
DVI-0 connected 1920x1080+0+0 (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) 698mm x 392mm
1920x1080 50.00 + 60.00 59.94 24.00* 23.98
1920x1080i 60.00 50.00 59.94
1280x720 60.00 50.00 59.94
720x576 50.00
720x576i 50.00
720x480 60.00 59.94
720x480i 60.00 59.94
640x480 60.00 59.94
S-video disconnected (normal left inverted right x axis y axis)
linuxlite@linuxlite-Advent-Series:~$ inxi -Fxz
System: Host: linuxlite-Advent-Series Kernel: 4.4.0-112-generic i686 (32 bit gcc: 5.4.0)
Desktop: Xfce 4.12.3 (Gtk 2.24.28) Distro: Ubuntu 16.04 xenial
Machine: Mobo: TriGem NETHERLANDS model: Advent Series v: Ver1.0
Bios: Phoenix v: 6.00 PG date: 10/29/2003
CPU: Single core Intel Pentium 4 (-HT-) cache: 1024 KB
flags: (pae sse sse2 sse3) bmips: 6401
clock speeds: max: 3200 MHz 1: 3200 MHz 2: 3200 MHz
Graphics: Card: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD/ATI] RV280 [Radeon 9200 PRO]
bus-ID: 01:00.0
Display Server: X.Org 1.18.4 drivers: ati,radeon (unloaded: fbdev,vesa)
Resolution: [email protected]
GLX Renderer: Mesa DRI R200 (RV280 5960) x86/MMX/SSE2 DRI2
GLX Version: 1.3 Mesa 17.2.4 Direct Rendering: Yes
Audio: Card Intel 82801EB/ER (ICH5/ICH5R) AC'97 Audio Controller
driver: snd_intel8x0 ports: d800 dc00 bus-ID: 00:1f.5
Sound: Advanced Linux Sound Architecture v: k4.4.0-112-generic
Network: Card: Intel 82562EZ 10/100 Ethernet Controller
driver: e100 v: 3.5.24-k2-NAPI port: a000 bus-ID: 02:08.0
IF: enp2s8 state: up speed: 100 Mbps duplex: full mac: <filter>
Drives: HDD Total Size: 1004.3GB (0.9% used)
ID-1: /dev/sda model: HITACHI_HUA72201 size: 1000.2GB
ID-2: USB /dev/sdb model: USB_CARD_READER size: 4.1GB
Partition: ID-1: / size: 49G used: 4.8G (11%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/sda7
ID-2: swap-1 size: 1.07GB used: 0.00GB (0%) fs: swap dev: /dev/sda5
RAID: No RAID devices: /proc/mdstat, md_mod kernel module present
Sensors: System Temperatures: cpu: 50.5C mobo: N/A
Fan Speeds (in rpm): cpu: N/A
Info: Processes: 172 Uptime: 10 min Memory: 277.3/2013.9MB
Init: systemd runlevel: 5 Gcc sys: 5.4.0
Client: Shell (bash 4.3.481) inxi: 2.2.35
linuxlite@linuxlite-Advent-Series:~$
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The old ATI video card is your problem. It does not support HDMI, only DVI/VGA, any resolution on the TV above what the card supports is created by the TV's own upscaling system when run through HDMI, there is also the DVI to HDMI conversion sat in the middle of it, that can bring its own problems.
Also support for those old cards within recent Linux kernels is basic at best, the reason you get better support through XP is because it's running drivers designed for that card. Either run the TV through the VGA port where better support exists, or you will have to upgrade the video card. A suitable card for that job can be found for the price of a pizza these days on eBay and other sites.
I do a lot of work with old retro computing stuff and my big flat screen TV is what I use also to install and set them up when in the living room. I always use VGA because HDMI never works properly with old video cards, it either upscales incorrectly or has some sort of problem or artifacts.
You may get it to run better by editing the Xorg configuration files but I doubt it, you still will have the upscaling quirks to deal with.
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Hi pyterman.
'any resolution on the TV above what the card supports is created by the TV's own upscaling system when run through HDMI'
No, that is 100% false: I've used DVI-HDMI with this card and this TV for years and got 1080x1920, no up/downscaling, every pixel perfectly clear. DVI does 1080x1920. Simply use a DVI to HDMI cable.
'HDMI never works properly with old video cards, it either upscales incorrectly or has some sort of problem or artifacts.'
No, it usually does work properly if the card produces 1080p. Artifacts can come from your TV: make sure all 'enhancers' or 'fit-screen' settings are off.
'you will have to upgrade the video card'
This is the best card available for this mobo.
'You may get it to run better by editing the Xorg configuration files'
Yes, tell me more about this!
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Well there you go, you've answered your own question. If you've used it for years with every pixel crystal clear what is the problem? Use what you was using, especially if you have the correct drivers for the card under XP or whatever.
Xorg configuration switches are listed in the Xorg docs/wiki, try different refresh rates and resolutions until you get one that is stable. If you do a google search there is plenty of examples of Xorg tuning, I've had to resort to it myself over the years with some old equipment. It can end up like poking yourself in the eye with a sharp stick however sometimes.
Alternatively, try a distro that runs a older kernel, that will probably have more suitable drivers. I use a older version of Puppy Linux a lot with older hardware for testing, it can run stuff fine that newer distro's don't. That way I can get a idea of what's stopping things working properly, be it kernel drivers, Xorg config or just general gremlins!
Unfortunately there's no static guide or answer to what you're looking for without experimentation.
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'what is the problem?' - I've been very clear what the problem is. Read the thread!
'Xorg docs/wiki' - Yes, thank you very much. I will look this up.
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Hello neil,
on the searches I only found these 2 links that give info of some things to try -
Some screen flickering solutions, re; installing 4.4 kernel solved the issue, what are the advanced members ideas about this or other kernels ?
https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2356878 (https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2356878)
If ideas show it would be useful to try , this can easily be done in Linux Lite using -
Menu>System>Lite Tweaks> Kernel Installer
It is a Linux Lite tool that gives the option to download, or change between kernels.
Other (chrome related mostly) flickering solutions, but it does discuss about hardware acceleration settings being the cause of flickering, it could be looked in to for any potential solution.
https://askubuntu.com/questions/766725/annoying-flickering-in-16-04-lts-chrome (https://askubuntu.com/questions/766725/annoying-flickering-in-16-04-lts-chrome)
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with the VGA cable for HDTV, computer, projector etc, the correct one is called "VGA 3+6", is it the one you tried ?
VGA 3+6 is the High Speed VGA cable, with best signal quality for VGA.
If it helps I can photograph a regular VGA and VGA 3+6 next to each other ?
So you can see the physical differences on the cable (connection pins same), this way none can try to rip you off if you go to buy one as you know how it should look.
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'what is the problem?' - I've been very clear what the problem is. Read the thread!
'Xorg docs/wiki' - Yes, thank you very much. I will look this up.
I read the thread. You state, and I quote. "No, that is 100% false: I've used DVI-HDMI with this card and this TV for years and got 1080x1920, no up/downscaling, every pixel perfectly clear. DVI does 1080x1920. Simply use a DVI to HDMI cable."
Anyway I'm done if you want to get nasty about it, I can only relay my experiences with things like this and I can tell you it is not 100% false. Good luck with it.
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@pyterman - 'get nasty' No, I'm just disagreeing with your posts.
'what's the problem' The problem still is that I want this hardware to run full res. and full speed on LL, like it does on XP.
'any resolution on the TV above what the card supports is created by the TV's own upscaling system when run through HDMI' - okay, that's not false, I apologise, but the whole paragraph was false because there is no upscaling/downscaling going on:
'The old ATI video card is your problem. It does not support HDMI, only DVI/VGA, any resolution on the TV above what the card supports is created by the TV's own upscaling system when run through HDMI, there is also the DVI to HDMI conversion sat in the middle of it, that can bring its own problems.' Rubbish!
Please stop replying. Goodbye.
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@bitsnpcs - re. re-installing kernels: that is very interesting. I'll try that. Unfortunately, the PC now won't connect to the internet. It was fine yesterday. I don't know what's gone wrong.
re. VGA: My card has DVI, VGA and S-vid. The VGA and S-vid have a max res. much smaller than 1080x1920, so I don't use them much. The VGA input on my TV also does not support 1080x1920. So, I don't need a VGA 3+6. Thanks for offering photos.
The DVI output (primary output) has max res. of 1080x1920, so I connect that directly to HDMI on a full-HD TV with a DVI-HDMI cable. I've done this with various TVs over the years, XP, no probs.
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Hopefully this may help clarify...
The problem is a combination of hardware and drivers...
1st you cannot compare XP to LL3.6.. LL3.6 is more like win10... Apples and Oranges... Win10 probably wont support your hardware.. The problem is ATI stopped supporting drivers for the linux kernel. So your left with basic resolutions.
Pretty sure this was discussed on the forums, a search may yield the added info.
If your really set on using your gonna have to heavily customize and/or compile to work.
Or you could try an older version of LL something from early 2.x series or possibly 1.x...
But now your in the same boat of using an outdated OS.
Added advice if you plan to continue with compiling drivers and attempting customized code. You'll want be familiar with TTY should code not work and a good Systemback backup to easily undo and revert back.
Good luck in you efforts
Start here from the help manual...
https://www.linuxliteos.com/manual/hardware.html#graphics
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@firenice03 - thank you. I'll try an older version.
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@firenice03 - thank you. I'll try an older version.
Hope the info helps.. if the 2.x series works hopefully you've pinpointed the problem...
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Well, I tried some different kernels, then I tried some older versions. No luck, but I was asking a lot.
LL is a nice OS though. I'll use it on some other computers.
Thanks for all the ideas!