General > Suggestions and Feedback
Suggestions for Linux Lite 5.6 (starting from an unfair German review)
Moltke:
First of all, I think you started with the wrong foot with your approach. This is not the way to address such things. I've too seen stuff I believe could be improved, but then I don't start a thread in the forum for everyone to see just for showing off, instead, I opt to PM the Lite team and let them know my observations, then it's up to them whether they take it into account.
--- Quote from: ludditus on May 30, 2021, 06:47:18 PM ---Jerry, thanks for the reply. Since we're not trying to debate on the existence of God, could I use some old plain logic?
--- Quote from: Jerry on May 30, 2021, 04:30:55 PM ---If you've been to our main website, I'm sure that you are aware that you are not in our target audience. This is the first and most important point to make as it determines how feedback is responded to for one.
--- End quote ---
This is, sorry to say, rude. Even if it's your distro, even if it's your work, even if your "customers" don't pay you a dime, the feedback from the end-users should always be treated equally. If something is true, then it's true. Such as a bug. When a package conflicts with another package, but it's not declared as such, this is a bug, and a newbie couldn't know it's a bug, but I do.
--- End quote ---
True. However, Lite team is a small, enthusiastic one who devote themselves to make the best they can to keep this distro the way its target audience want it to. With that in mind, it's logical to think that the most practical thing to do is to take that target audience's feedback as the most relevant; it makes it easy for them to fix and apply that target audience's recommendations. Anyone else's can wait.
--- Quote from: Jerry on May 30, 2021, 04:30:55 PM ---The difference in feedback.
Experienced people who have been in linux for a while - their feedback tends to lean on the side of personal preference. They've used linux long enough to be at a point where they are able to see from a certain view how 'things could be better' with a linux based OS.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote ---Experienced people, people who have been in software development for decades, people who have interacted with customers and end users, experienced professionals who are not just software developers, but who also know to collect feedback from users, and understand ergonomics and human factors could provide you much more useful feedback than Joe Sixpack who doesn't know how to use a wired mouse.
--- End quote ---
"Experienced professionals" don't go around showing off their skills or knowledge, instead, since they're knowledgeable and skilled enough to know better than that, they use the right approach to address things, which, I'm sorry to say, but you don't seem to follow this most basic principle.
--- Quote ---
--- Quote from: Jerry on May 30, 2021, 04:30:55 PM ---Newbies feedback is of the utmost importance, because they are experiencing everything for the first time - first time use.
--- End quote ---
Yes, but if you only value their feedback, you won't fix much.
--- End quote ---
Again, target audience's feedback takes precedent, anything else can wait, for the reasons explained above.
--- Quote from: Jerry on May 30, 2021, 04:30:55 PM --- if any of it matches with existing 'newbie' feeback, I'll certainly consider it for implementation. Cheers.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote ---With all due respect, this is a fallacious approach. Most newbies don't even know what they miss, what they'd like, what they see, when they see a bug. They might even not know that some option exists! How could they complain when they don't know what this collection of software can or could do for them?
I presented you, that's true, some personal preferences. But maybe 80% of the time, 70% of users prefer the Compact List in a file manager, and only use Icon View for pictures. Also, for when someone changes to Compact or Details (most people would eventually do it at some point) and they see white icons instead of themed icons because they're too small, why not changing the defaults as long as it would help them?
Finally, if there are two firewall configuration tools in the menu, but the user only sees one in the Settings window, how is this not a bug? That stupid German is the proof that the best thing to do is to fix this instead of saying, "oh, the feedback is not coming from the right people!"
If we have had designed products only based on the feedback from the users, we'd have had hybrid horse-driven automobiles.
Let's agree we are incompatible in the way we see the management of a software project, of a software product, of a software brand, of a software market, and of a community of users and, before you kick me out, to part here. I am not welcome in this community, I leave.
All the best.
--- End quote ---
Most newbies, specially the ones coming from Windows, will be more than happy to use a stable and pleasant to use distro such as Linux Lite is. Again, I don't think this is the way to address such things which in the end are just a matter of perspective, because truth be told, most distros have their own flaws and yet the people who use them and the people behind them are always supportive with the community, and don't go around showing off saying this or that is wrong or broken just because they don't like it or think they know better, and if they do, then they should create their own distro to prove their points are and always have been valid and everyone else should follow their lead, otherwise, they're just letting their egos speak for them. You're welcome in the community, but I don't think the community is welcome in/by you.
Cheers! :55:
Jerry:
Why would I kick you out? You're welcome to express your opinions.
Sent from my mobile phone using Tapatalk
ludditus:
Jerry, thanks for the reply. Since we're not trying to debate on the existence of God, could I use some old plain logic?
--- Quote from: Jerry on May 30, 2021, 04:30:55 PM ---If you've been to our main website, I'm sure that you are aware that you are not in our target audience. This is the first and most important point to make as it determines how feedback is responded to for one.
--- End quote ---
This is, sorry to say, rude. Even if it's your distro, even if it's your work, even if your "customers" don't pay you a dime, the feedback from the end-users should always be treated equally. If something is true, then it's true. Such as a bug. When a package conflicts with another package, but it's not declared as such, this is a bug, and a newbie couldn't know it's a bug, but I do.
--- Quote from: Jerry on May 30, 2021, 04:30:55 PM ---The difference in feedback.
Experienced people who have been in linux for a while - their feedback tends to lean on the side of personal preference. They've used linux long enough to be at a point where they are able to see from a certain view how 'things could be better' with a linux based OS.
--- End quote ---
Experienced people, people who have been in software development for decades, people who have interacted with customers and end users, experienced professionals who are not just software developers, but who also know to collect feedback from users, and understand ergonomics and human factors could provide you much more useful feedback than Joe Sixpack who doesn't know how to use a wired mouse.
--- Quote from: Jerry on May 30, 2021, 04:30:55 PM ---Newbies feedback is of the utmost importance, because they are experiencing everything for the first time - first time use.
--- End quote ---
Yes, but if you only value their feedback, you won't fix much.
--- Quote from: Jerry on May 30, 2021, 04:30:55 PM ---There's a complete and utter moron on Youtube who is a Debian fan-boy who does reviews and has done some of LL, none of which are accurate and therefore any feedback is completely ignored. His views are irrelevant because he is not in our target audience.
--- End quote ---
There is a logical contradiction here. Which one is true?
1. His views are ignored because he's a moron and his reviews are inaccurate.
2. His views are ignored because he's not in LL's target audience.
The second one is not fair play.
--- Quote from: Jerry on May 30, 2021, 04:30:55 PM --- if any of it matches with existing 'newbie' feeback, I'll certainly consider it for implementation. Cheers.
--- End quote ---
With all due respect, this is a fallacious approach. Most newbies don't even know what they miss, what they'd like, what they see, when they see a bug. They might even not know that some option exists! How could they complain when they don't know what this collection of software can or could do for them?
I presented you, that's true, some personal preferences. But maybe 80% of the time, 70% of users prefer the Compact List in a file manager, and only use Icon View for pictures. Also, for when someone changes to Compact or Details (most people would eventually do it at some point) and they see white icons instead of themed icons because they're too small, why not changing the defaults as long as it would help them?
Finally, if there are two firewall configuration tools in the menu, but the user only sees one in the Settings window, how is this not a bug? That stupid German is the proof that the best thing to do is to fix this instead of saying, "oh, the feedback is not coming from the right people!"
If we have had designed products only based on the feedback from the users, we'd have had hybrid horse-driven automobiles.
Let's agree we are incompatible in the way we see the management of a software project, of a software product, of a software brand, of a software market, and of a community of users and, before you kick me out, to part here. I am not welcome in this community, I leave.
All the best.
Artim:
While "newbies" are the target market for Linux Lite, there are many experienced and technically advanced Linux users who also use Linux Lite simply because it's so shareable to their kids, parents, and grandparents. They may also use it themselves simply because it's so intuitive and simple for busy people. As I have said before, it's the super-duper-ultra-mega techno-geeks that have made Linux Lite and other "beginner friendly" distros possible, and they have every reason to be very proud of their work.
As for the article, I call Linux Lite "Xubuntu done right" because it's GUI is even more intuitive, and the Lite Tweaks integrate perfectly.
Jerry:
If you've been to our main website, I'm sure that you are aware that you are not in our target audience. This is the first and most important point to make as it determines how feedback is responded to for one. I recognise and thank you for your defense against that German article, it's not an uncommon tactic in the 'journalist' realm to write provocative, misleading articles to get more clicks, more clicks - more advertising revenue.
The difference in feedback.
Experienced, people who have been in linux for a while - their feedback tends to lean on the side of personal preference. They've used linux long enough to be at a point where they are able to see from a certain view how 'things could be better' with a linux based OS.
'Newbies' new folk to linux - our target audience (exclusively) - Yes, were going to get people use Linux Lite, who have used linux for a long time. That's unpreventable, and I've no objection to it, other than how they view the OS. Newbies feedback is of the utmost importance, because they are experiencing everything for the first time - first time use. There's a complete and utter moron on Youtube who is a Debian fan-boy who does reviews and has done some of LL, none of which are accurate and therefore any feedback is completely ignored. His views are irrelevant because he is not in our target audience. He makes stupid points like 'why are there the same shortcuts to folders in more than one place?' Simple answer is that is how it is in Windows. We are not a Windows clone, but we need to give people who are transitioning, a similar UI experience, not the same, similar.
I'll add more top this later, but you should be now I hope, at the very least be aware of who we are targeting. I recognise and thank you for your time and feedback, I have read it all and if any of it matches with existing 'newbie' feeback, I'll certainly consider it for implementation. Cheers.
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