Linux Lite Forums
General => Suggestions and Feedback => Topic started by: DeepThought on May 31, 2018, 05:31:52 AM
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I recently decided to upgrade my test server from 16.04 to 18.04 and found though the iso passed md5sum check and everything seemed to install ok I couldn't reboot or shutdown cleanly using the gui or cli commands.
This has also happened while testing LL 4.0 beta which uses the ubuntu 18.04 as it's base.
After the poweroff/reboot or shutdown -h / shutdown -r commands I observed the text on screen and it seemed to stop/unload/unmount ok until the final line ...Starting shutdown or Starting reboot ....... and then the pc would freeze/hang and no matter how long I waited I've had to manually hold the power button in to shut the pc down.
After exhaustive internet searches, with a few hits blaming system suspend, nvidia cards, wifi managers and even one post suggesting I use SysReq REISUB, I couldn't find a solution.
Although the iso passed the md5sum test I began wondering if there was a problem with it so I reinstalled 16.04 which I knew worked ok.
Now to why I think it's a kernel problem.
After install I fully updated 16.04. I then decided to use the do-release-upgrade command to download and upgrade the system which seemed to work great, except with the 4.15 default kernel the same behaviour happened. System seemed to hang at the final stage of ....Starting Reboot/Starting Shutdown.
But doing it this way the old 4.5.4 kernel was still available, so I changed to this kernel and everything seemed to work properly, rebooting and shutting down as it should.
I might just be unlucky with my hardware but this problem happened on both a Dell Inspiron 1501 laptop and an NUC5CPYH mini desktop and I bring this up since if I'm correct most people testing LL 4.0 have done so within virtualbox or vmware and might not be aware of this problem until they try an install on actual hdd.
Using UKUU (Ubuntu Kernel Update Utility) and a trial and error method I am at the moment trying to find the newest kernel that will work, but no success as yet apart from 4.5.4
I am comfortable using the terminal so if anyone needs more info just tell me the commands and info you want.
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There is a few reported problems with the new 18.04 I've noticed over the last couple weeks. Unfortunately anything to do with the kernel is down to the kernel devs to sort out, the Linux Lite team or any other distro devs can't do anything about it.
That aside, it's always best to leave any new release to mature for a few month before trying it, if you're using it for any type of production system. More often than not, bugs like this will show themselves and take a while to iron out!
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@ptyerman I agree that this is a problem for the kernel devs to sort out and would normally wait a few months before attempting such an upgrade but my concern is the LL 4.0 is to be released in June, tomorrow, and from what I have seen on the forums, most testing has been done in VM's which might not show this behaviour.
Such behaviour might be a bit disconcerting for new window users or less experienced linux users.
Then again it could just be me lol but thank you for your comments, appreciated :)
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Now to why I think it's a kernel problem.
Yes, that's it, it's really only a kernel problem. I noticed that when I tested some different Linux releases, e. g. Xubuntu 18.04 and Mint XFCE 18.04 - they had the same bugs when adding start-up icons to the system panel - the user has to do it several times in order the right panel icon is set. Is it just a coincidence in different distros? No, I don't think so, it's just the same 'infection' in the common kernel they use.
After install I fully updated 16.04. I then decided to use the do-release-upgrade command to download and upgrade the system which seemed to work great, except with the 4.15 default kernel the same behaviour happened. System seemed to hang at the final stage of ....Starting Reboot/Starting Shutdown.
The user may block updating some apps in Synaptic and so they will never be updated. Is it possible to do the same for the new buggy kernels, I wonder? It would be great! As I don't want new kernels at all - the older kernel versions are even better and faster for my old netbook.
But doing it this way the old 4.5.4 kernel was still available, so I changed to this kernel and everything seemed to work properly, rebooting and shutting down as it should.
How I understand you!
I am comfortable using the terminal so if anyone needs more info just tell me the commands and info you want.
I want the commands! Please! :D
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@NN Hi, using apt-mark hold "package-name" it is possible to retain said package version and prevent upgrades.
So as kernel version 4.5.4 works I could apt-mark hold kernel-4.5.4 to prevent further upgrades :)
As I've said I am using ukuu to try and find the newest kernel that will work properly :)
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from what I have seen on the forums, most testing has been done in VM's which might not show this behaviour
You are quite right, that's why I never test new distros in VMs, I have a special partition on my HDD to fulfil the task and to see the distro at full and 'as large as life'. The new buggy kernel in LL 4.0 beta didn't let me even to start up the machine - all I saw was a black screen (I wrote about it somewhere on the forum already).
Despite the fact that I'm really looking forward to testing the new stable LL release, I'm still scared that the distro will not launch LL at all like it was in the beta version. Only some hours are left to check it out. 8)
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It's out now for those who want an early download but please, NO POSTS on it in any thread or I will delete them. Wait for the official announcement in a few hours, then post your replies in the announcement thread. SourceForge is your friend, wink wink.
Sent from my Mi Max using Tapatalk
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I want an early download, but guess i have to wait another day. Nowhere a download to be found.
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@NN Hi, using apt-mark hold "package-name" it is possible to retain said package version and prevent upgrades.
So as kernel version 4.5.4 works I could apt-mark hold kernel-4.5.4 to prevent further upgrades :)
As I've said I am using ukuu to try and find the newest kernel that will work properly :)
Thank you for your quick reply. :)
Alas, the fact is that I have '4.13.0-43-generic' (see below) already.
nn-dot-s:~$ uname -a
Linux nn-dot-s 4.13.0-43-generic #48~16.04.1-Ubuntu SMP Thu May 17 12:56:46 UTC 2018 x86_64 GNU/Linux
nn-dot-s:~$
How can I switch to some earlier kernel (as earlier kernels are much faster) without affecting the whole system? Won't the procedure damage it? Though I am not afraid of experimenting, but I don't want to reinstall my customized distro and all my favourite apps in order not to waste my time. Could you, please, explain it to me easily and clearly having in mind that I am no geek at all. Thanks in advance. :)
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@NN Hi atm I'm using ukuu to install / remove kernels. Instructions for install from ppa can be found at:
https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/02/ukuu-easy-way-to-install-mainline-kernel-ubuntu
Once installed can be found in system menu. Once started the software is quite straight forward to install / remove any kernel (except the one running obviously :) )
I would suggest that you enter the softwares settings and tick the box for grub-timeout and increase this to say 10 secs. Thus when grub appears at reboot you can click on advanced and choose which kernel to boot with.
The process won't damage your system in anyway and you can always return to your original kernel to boot from and remove the others :)
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I'm sure there are hardware and software specific issues with the new kernels, but I have yet to discover anything particularly difficult other than a tendency in Ubuntu to install the wrong firmware for AMD. 4.9 retpoline is fine in Debian, and both the 4.13 & 4.15 retpoline is fine in Ubuntu for me. It is worth noting that Ubuntu boots considerably slower than Debian, and you must be careful not to interrupt updates on reboots as the CLI update and cleaning activity is hidden on the boot screen in Ubuntu, something annoying to me, about as much as sudo is in general, but of no consequence to most users. 18.04 Ubuntu is buggy but LL is far more selective with its base software and there will be less problems. PPA versions are all over the place in the bug spectrum because the pace of change has been so accelerated this year by S/M, still unresolved VM issues, the end of unity DE, and new wayland options. Add PPAs carefully. I expect LL to have very few issues compared to Ubuntu 18.04 as long as users stay with the base system. XFCE will probably be better implemented in LL than Xubuntu as well. All will be well for most LL users once the dust settles.
TC
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DeepThought, thank you a lot! One more plus to your 'karma'. :)
I have downloaded the deb-package already and will install it to see the functionality of the app. I will have to study the prog, too. I think, the app is very useful. :)
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@NN Thank you. It is a useful tool and I'm sure you'll find it helpful :)
@trinidad I agree and hopefully the official release will work oob, I'm just trying to point out a possible issue.
It is worth noting that Ubuntu boots considerably slower than Debian, and you must be careful not to interrupt updates on reboots as the CLI update and cleaning activity is hidden on the boot screen in Ubuntu, something annoying to me, about as much as sudo is in general, but of no consequence to most users
As to the possibility of the reboot / shutdown being slow due to updates or system doing summat I once went out shopping for a few hours to come back and find the system still frozen :).
If you tap esc during boot or shutdown the boot splash disappears and you can see scrolling text of what is going on.... does scroll rather fast but you do get a gist of any problems :)
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@NN Thank you. It is a useful tool and I'm sure you'll find it helpful :)
Yes, I do find the prog (short for 'program', lol) very helpful, it has become a must have app for me as now I know how to avoid buggy kernels (the app is good not only for kernel update but also for kernel rollback). :D And the app is very intuitive, so I had nothing special to study about it. Look, what kernel I am using now! :D
(http://images.vfl.ru/ii/1527775851/89b0aae4/21947652.png)
DeepThought, thank you once again for your very helpful advice about this app. By the way, Gdebi told me that the app (ukuu) is available in the software-center, so I installed ukuu by means of the terminal (there occured to be no need for downloading the app from the site). :)
sudo apt install ukuu
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@Jerry
Thanks!
It's out now for those who want an early download but please, NO POSTS on it in any thread or I will delete them. Wait for the official announcement in a few hours, then post your replies in the announcement thread. SourceForge is your friend, wink wink.
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@NN I'm glad it worked for you :)
I wasn't aware that it had been recognised officially and was now in the repositories. It saves adding a ppa, thanks for that info :)
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now in the repositories. It saves adding a ppa, thanks for that info :)
And the PPA is http://ppa.launchpad.net/teejee2008/ppa/ubuntu - the same repo as for conky-manager and TimeShift. I see now why I managed to install ukuu in the terminal. :)
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@NN Thanks for the clarification, I did a quick search but couldn't find an official ukuu package but noticed it had been added to a few ppa's.
Anyway, it's a good app and easy enough to install and use if anyone else needs it :)
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couldn't find an official ukuu package
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-BIcNCBTS9Wk/V_jEpA9YcaI/AAAAAAAAKFw/OKCidbvlYE8w1dfGNEFKabBVcV6gbCBqQCLcB/s400/Screenshot_20161008_120323.png)
So, the official site of the developers is here: http://www.teejeetech.in/p/ukuu-kernel-upgrade-utility.html
Hence their official PPA is here: http://ppa.launchpad.net/teejee2008/ppa/ubuntu/pool/main/u/ukuu/
You can download the required package for installation manually or you can do that by adding the PPA:
sudo apt-add-repository -y ppa:teejee2008/ppa
sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get install ukuu
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After a clean install of LL 4.0 Final the issue is still there. Latest kernels just won't power off the Dell Inspiron laptop properly. Had I not stuck to LTS versions I might have noticed this problem a while back but I'll continue using ukuu to find a newer kernel that works.
I am tempted to recompile the base 18.04 kernel v4.15 but it's been a long time since I've attempted a kernel compile so will need to do some reading beforehand :)
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Hi DeepThought and NN,
I haven't looked at the difference yet. Just wondering why you are not using the option in Lite Tweaks to install alternative kernels?
:)
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Hi LL-user
I've had a look at the kernel-installer in Lite-Tweaks but that doesn't seem to do anything. Here's a screenshot of what I get using that tweak.
(https://i.imgur.com/eWytOZ1.png)
Not sure if it's a bug, me or it only uses kernels already downloaded and on the pc
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Hi LL-user
I've had a look at the kernel-installer in Lite-Tweaks but that doesn't seem to do anything. Here's a screenshot of what I get using that tweak.
(https://i.imgur.com/eWytOZ1.png)
Not sure if it's a bug, me or it only uses kernels already downloaded and on the pc
It was a bug @DeepThought thank you for the report. It is now fixed. Make sure you update sources when it asks you on the Kernel Installer.
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@Jerry So glad it wasn't me lol. Anyway I'll update sources next time I try it, atm I'm attempting to compile a kernel v.4.15 using the config file fron v4.7.2 which I know works, using make oldconfig, so should be fun lol
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Hi DeepThought and NN,
I haven't looked at the difference yet. Just wondering why you are not using the option in Lite Tweaks to install alternative kernels?
:)
Hi, LL-user!
For me ukuu is better. Tastes differ, you know. :)
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I have managed to find a one-click solution to this problem and had a massive DOH!!! moment after all the kernel installing/testing/compiling I have done over the last few days :(
Since I was convinced the problem was with the kernel I refined my google searches to "Kernel preventing reboot/shutdown" instead of "Ubuntu 18.04 not rebooting/shutting down" and found the answer.
The problem stems from 2 differing technologies for Power management. APM (Advanced Power Management) and ACPI (Advanced Configuration and Power Interface) with APM being the older and slowly deprecated technology.The main difference that led me to my solution was, APM is centered on the BIOS while ACPI is centered on the operating system.
http://www.differencebetween.net/technology/software-technology/difference-between-apm-and-acpi/
So from info found on the net I looked through my bios configuration for anything mentioning apm or acpi but only found PowerNow (AMD PowerNow! is AMD's dynamic frequency scaling and power saving technology for laptop processors).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerNow!
I disabled PowerNow, saved the bios config and rebooted and that was it, laptop rebooting and shutting down as it should do.
To further confirm this I looked through the config for a few of the kernels that didn't work and found no reference to APM, which I assume means APM support is no longer been built into or built as a module for todays kernels.
So after a clean install of LL 4.0 my laptop is chirping away quite happy to reboot or shutdown properly.
Hope this adventure helps anyone with similar power management problems :)
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Excellent information here.
Sent from my Mi Max using Tapatalk
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Thank you @Jerry