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Long startup due to hardcoded if-up apt-get update

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Re: Long startup due to hardcoded if-up apt-get update
« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2023, 01:18:10 PM »
 

rew

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People post 'fixes' here. But that doesn't automatically translate to one size fits all. I have the /etc/network/if-up.d/update file and my boot times are not adversely affected by it. The other contributors here have also not reported a problem. As an OS provider, one must tread extremely carefully and usually only 'fix' things that affect the majority of people, and only then, with no foreseeable adverse affects. I can predict with more certainty how a necessary bug fix will affect everyone, but with this, I don't like to play 'trial and error' with 1000's of computers. There's a balance to consider. Interesting thread nonetheless. Thank you.
Thanks for your explanation. To me it's important that the maintainers of linuxliteos are aware of this problem. How you react to it, remains indeed your responsibility.


I have now tested that bug also on my somewhat newer and stronger machine.

Code: [Select]
neofetch
          ,xXc       rew@studlin460s
      .l0MMMMMO      ---------------
   .kNMMMMMWMMMN,    OS: Linux Lite 6.2 x86_64
   KMMMMMMKMMMMMMo   Host: 20FAS54D00 ThinkPad T460s
  'MMMMMMNKMMMMMM:   Kernel: 5.15.0-56-generic
  kMMMMMMOMMMMMMO    Uptime: 11 mins
 .MMMMMMX0MMMMMW.    Packages: 2401 (dpkg)
 oMMMMMMxWMMMMM:     Shell: bash 5.1.16
 WMMMMMNkMMMMMO      Resolution: 2560x1440
:MMMMMMOXMMMMW       DE: Xfce
.0MMMMMxMMMMM;       WM: Xfwm4
:;cKMMWxMMMMO        WM Theme: Materia
'MMWMMXOMMMMl        Theme: Materia [GTK2/3]
 kMMMMKOMMMMMX:      Icons: Papirus-Adapta [GTK2], Adwaita [GTK3]
 .WMMMMKOWMMM0c      Terminal: xfce4-terminal
  lMMMMMWO0MNd:'     Terminal Font: Droid Sans Mono 12
   oollXMKXoxl;.     CPU: Intel i7-6600U (4) @ 3.400GHz
     ':. .: .'       GPU: Intel Skylake GT2 [HD Graphics 520]
              ..     Memory: 1615MiB / 19739MiB

Turns out that I face severe boot issues also there ... around 10 secs.
Which doesn't really astonish me, it was clear that it is a network issue ... provoked by the 'apt update' enforcement.

I share my data and let you make your wise choices.
The attachments and measurements:
blame =
Code: [Select]
systemd-analyze blamenetworking-services =
Code: [Select]
journalctl -u networking.service -bplot =
Code: [Select]
system-analyze plot - before the fix: Startup finished in 14.112s (firmware) + 20.537s (loader) + 4.202s (kernel) + 14.398s (userspace) = 53.250s graphical.target reached after 14.374s in userspace
 - after the fix: Startup finished in 8.840s (firmware) + 19.691s (loader) + 4.185s (kernel) + 9.536s (userspace) = 42.254s graphical.target reached after 9.529s in userspace
 
... we clearly see that I have problem on boot to reach the update sites. See journalctl output. This is not issue at real runtime. I don't mind however ... chmod -x update and I have a blazing fast liteos.

users voice
To share my view, I was experimenting with other distros despite my preference for linuxliteos, as I was frustrated with the latest boot performance. And I almost left you guys, wouldn't I have found this cause for the severe boot problem ... so I now stay with the distro. If other users make the same choices, the price for this 'apt update' may be much bigger than you think.
I saw other threads that report slow boot ... around networking.service ... I assume they suffer from the same effect.
Someone delete my post to help these users, thats ok, your business. But with this we never get more data whether more users are affected.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2023, 01:46:36 PM by rew »
 

Re: Long startup due to hardcoded if-up apt-get update
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2023, 04:04:41 AM »
 

Jerry

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Sure, here's my output. Is there anything suspicious in it? - Define suspicious?

People post 'fixes' here. But that doesn't automatically translate to one size fits all. I have the /etc/network/if-up.d/update file and my boot times are not adversely affected by it. The other contributors here have also not reported a problem. As an OS provider, one must tread extremely carefully and usually only 'fix' things that affect the majority of people, and only then, with no foreseeable adverse affects. I can predict with more certainty how a necessary bug fix will affect everyone, but with this, I don't like to play 'trial and error' with 1000's of computers. There's a balance to consider. Interesting thread nonetheless. Thank you.
 

Re: Long startup due to hardcoded if-up apt-get update
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2023, 01:30:19 PM »
 

rew

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What is the output of:
Code: [Select]
systemctl list-dependencies --reverse network-online.target

Sure, here's my output. Is there anything suspicious in it?
Code: [Select]
systemctl list-dependencies --reverse network-online.target network-online.target
● ├─cups-browsed.service
● ├─hddtemp.service
● ├─nmbd.service
● ├─packagekit.service
● └─smbd.service



Quote
With third-party I am talking about the packages I tend to install ... I don't think it makes sense to post a full list of all my deps.

Do you notice the problem with the boot times of the machines prior to installing your third party packages ?
If I suspected third party package may be responsible I'd be doing analysis of boot ups before and after the third party stuff installation.

The boot time is evidently lost by an `apt update` call on if-up. So the third-parties that cause that delay can be best reported by the sources I'm going to look up on during this. In my case the firefox ppa is indeed a third-party. But any other repo that users may use, will cause further delays on everydays boot routines.

Code: [Select]
sudo apt update
[sudo] password for rew:
Hit:1 http://ubuntu.ethz.ch/ubuntu jammy InRelease
Hit:2 http://ubuntu.ethz.ch/ubuntu jammy-updates InRelease                     
Hit:3 http://ubuntu.ethz.ch/ubuntu jammy-backports InRelease                   
Hit:4 http://ubuntu.ethz.ch/ubuntu jammy-security InRelease                   
Hit:5 https://ppa.launchpadcontent.net/mozillateam/ppa/ubuntu jammy InRelease 
Hit:6 http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu jammy InRelease                     
Hit:7 http://repo.linuxliteos.com/linuxlite fluorite InRelease
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree... Done
Reading state information... Done
9 packages can be upgraded. Run 'apt list --upgradable' to see them.




If this is your PC - http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press_kits/2008/connecting/ds_bn_6730b.pdf I wouldn't expect miracle boot times once the networking issue is resolved. Windows Vista :) Throw in an SSD (if possible) and tweak the boot, static IP helps a lot, and you should be in business.
Yes, this is my PC ... it's pretty old. The full boot time, after the fix,  is around 45 secs (including bios).

See also my plots on the actual boot time (with the fix applied of course):
Code: [Select]
Startup finished in 6.053s (kernel) + 8.989s (userspace) = 15.043s graphical.target reached after 8.962s in userspace
So I'm happy with that. And yes it has an SSD. But actually I wasn't looking for advice how to make it faster: I've measured and isolated a clear problem, and want to share with other users how to get rid of it, or even better get it fixed in the linuxliteos distribution.
At any rate, we all know that a call of `apt update` doesn't come for free regardless of the disk. The more repos we're contacting the more this command delays the actual boot performance. We're making a real-world network operation.

My latest boot time measures are attached: today I only waste 10secs with it ... looks as if it highly depends on the activity on my network. What about if I'm connected to a slow network, having DNS problems, or a slow link, or using a slow mirror? The boot time will decrease almost beyond limits ... without any value for me as a user. That is not even a problem of old hardware ... but one of having a fast link to the web + mirrors.

« Last Edit: January 04, 2023, 02:19:37 PM by rew »
 

Re: Long startup due to hardcoded if-up apt-get update
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2023, 12:07:55 AM »
 

stevef

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Quote
With third-party I am talking about the packages I tend to install ... I don't think it makes sense to post a full list of all my deps.

Do you notice the problem with the boot times of the machines prior to installing your third party packages ?
If I suspected third party package may be responsible I'd be doing analysis of boot ups before and after the third party stuff installation.
clueless
 

Re: Long startup due to hardcoded if-up apt-get update
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2023, 09:34:55 PM »
 

Jerry

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If this is your PC - http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press_kits/2008/connecting/ds_bn_6730b.pdf I wouldn't expect miracle boot times once the networking issue is resolved. Windows Vista :) Throw in an SSD (if possible) and tweak the boot, static IP helps a lot, and you should be in business.
 

Re: Long startup due to hardcoded if-up apt-get update
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2023, 09:24:40 PM »
 

Jerry

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What is the output of:

Code: [Select]
systemctl list-dependencies --reverse network-online.target
Please also embed the images using the img tags, rather than linking them offsite. Thank you.
I'd also advise to not post in older threads until this is accurately identified. Cheers :)
« Last Edit: January 03, 2023, 09:53:13 PM by Jerry »
 

Re: Long startup due to hardcoded if-up apt-get update
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2023, 09:18:36 PM »
 

Jerry

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I'll do some digging, and report back.
 

Re: Long startup due to hardcoded if-up apt-get update
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2023, 01:31:37 PM »
 

rew

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Could you please embed the images in your post as jpegs or pngs. People are unlikely to trust the contents of this type of zip file as it's very easy to integrate malicious code into an svg. See - https://www.linuxliteos.com/forums/introductions/forum-posting-guidelines/

Sure, here are PNG versions
https://imgur.com/a/SO4687z


Topic moved to Startup and Shutdown section.

I guess each and every lite user is suffering from this. Or could it be that it derives from third-party, that I'm used to install on all these machines?

There are occasional reports of slow boot time - usually on older hardware, but I hope each and every user isn't having significant delays.  I've had a system on version 6.0/6.2 since and haven't seen this.

You mention third-party something - what is this ?

Yes, it's indeed older hardware. That's why I put linux-lite with an XFCE desktop on top of it.
With third-party I am talking about the packages I tend to install ... I don't think it makes sense to post a full list of all my deps. The question is whether this if-up.d/update script is part of the standard linuxliteos distribution or not. If it's in there ... we should get rid of it. If not, I can live with my workaround of disabling it manually

Code: [Select]
 neofetch
          ,xXc       rew@studentbook
      .l0MMMMMO      ---------------
   .kNMMMMMWMMMN,    OS: Linux Lite 6.0 x86_64
   KMMMMMMKMMMMMMo   Host: HP Compaq 6730b (NN238ET#UUZ) F.13
  'MMMMMMNKMMMMMM:   Kernel: 5.15.0-56-generic
  kMMMMMMOMMMMMMO    Uptime: 1 min
 .MMMMMMX0MMMMMW.    Packages: 2709 (dpkg)
 oMMMMMMxWMMMMM:     Shell: bash 5.1.16
 WMMMMMNkMMMMMO      Resolution: 1680x1050
:MMMMMMOXMMMMW       DE: Xfce
.0MMMMMxMMMMM;       WM: Xfwm4
:;cKMMWxMMMMO        WM Theme: Materia
'MMWMMXOMMMMl        Theme: Materia [GTK2/3]
 kMMMMKOMMMMMX:      Icons: Papirus-Adapta [GTK2], Adwaita [GTK3]
 .WMMMMKOWMMM0c      Terminal: xfce4-terminal
  lMMMMMWO0MNd:'     Terminal Font: Droid Sans Mono 12
   oollXMKXoxl;.     CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo P8800 (2) @ 2.667GHz
     ':. .: .'       GPU: Intel Mobile 4 Series Chipset
              ..     Memory: 564MiB / 3824MiB
                .                               
                                           
« Last Edit: January 03, 2023, 02:15:15 PM by rew »
 

Re: Long startup due to hardcoded if-up apt-get update
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2023, 04:40:14 AM »
 

stevef

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Topic moved to Startup and Shutdown section.

I guess each and every lite user is suffering from this. Or could it be that it derives from third-party, that I'm used to install on all these machines?

There are occasional reports of slow boot time - usually on older hardware, but I hope each and every user isn't having significant delays.  I've had a system on version 6.0/6.2 since and haven't seen this.

You mention third-party something - what is this ?

clueless
 

Re: Long startup due to hardcoded if-up apt-get update
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2023, 06:37:30 PM »
 

Jerry

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Could you please embed the images in your post as jpegs or pngs. People are unlikely to trust the contents of this type of zip file as it's very easy to integrate malicious code into an svg. See - https://www.linuxliteos.com/forums/introductions/forum-posting-guidelines/
 

Re: Long startup due to hardcoded if-up apt-get update
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2023, 03:44:48 PM »
 

trinidad

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All opinions expressed and all advice given by Trinidad Cruz on this forum are his responsibility alone and do not necessarily reflect the views or methods of the developers of Linux Lite. He is a citizen of the United States where it is acceptable to occasionally be uninformed and inept as long as you pay your taxes.
 

Long startup due to hardcoded if-up apt-get update
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2023, 10:51:23 AM »
 

rew

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Hi Guys

I'm using Linux Lite since several years. I Love it for its performance and simple user interface.

While migrating to the latest Ubuntu 22.04 based images I've faced remarkable performance decrease for the boot process.
I've analyzed this with `systemd-analyze blame`... and on all my machines the networking-service seemed to be the problem with 25-30 seconds delay on every boot.

Digging deeper, I isolated the a seemingly pre-installed if-up.d hook: as the source. So I gain all the boot performance back with a simple

sudo chmod -x /etc/network/if-up.d/update

IMHO this is a bug. I can't understand why this should be required.
I guess each and every lite user is suffering from this. Or could it be that it derives from third-party, that I'm used to install on all these machines?
If we need a regular 'apt update' call for lite ... the if-up.d hooks seem to be the wrong location.  :error

Can we fix this in a future release?

For detailed boot analysis, see my attached .svg images in the .zip.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2023, 10:59:43 AM by rew »
 

 

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