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'Something Else' partitioning... unsure of disk type and BIOS settings

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Mike Krall

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I'm still reading... trying to understand the different possibilities. 

One of is whether to mess around with converting the HDD disk from MBR to GPT.  Inspecting from different view points (Linux and Windows), it seems possible.  I think I understand enough to do it, but I don't know if down the road 3-5 years having a MBR disk is going to be functional...  like whether it's easier to deal with it now or whether it's a toss up.

Mostly though, what this post is about is having two or more Linux distros in the machine... to have Linux Lite available for a non-linux person (Linux Lite seems to be the absolutely best choice)... to have one or two other distros available for that person so they see there are differences/choices. The distros would be Debian-types, most likely Ubuntu-types for simplicity and familiarity (Ubuntu-MATE is one I thought might be nice).

Within my understanding level...  Do Not need or want shared data.  Would not share data with Windows if it were kept.  I think this machine will hold up for quite a while... it's old (2012) but has not been used... a few years of rare e-mailing and viewing written news, then used a week or two here and there while another computer was being replaced (past 5 years). 

Under the assumption the machine would hold up as a back up user, I think it's likely I'll have to upgrade the distros.  To me, that means it would be better for each distro to have it's own /home. 

I thought it might be possible to install each distro with a different root user (the user asked for during install).  That that might simply keep each /home distinct, thereby avoiding possible configuration conflicts (asked for Name and hostname the same.).

Is that all it would take?  If not, do you know of a simple approach to this you would pass on to me?

Mike
 

 

Mike Krall

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I'm going to assume this is 64bit hardware and MBR. The first thing to do is completely defragment drive C using the Windows defrag tool. This can take quite some time if you haven't been running it on auto over the years. When that is complete your Windows 7 system should only need about 50G, but keep it at 100G . Shrink it to that size. Reboot. Delete sda3 (the 14G partition). Combine the leftover space and designate it all unallocated. Reboot. Create a new backup partition for Windows if you want. Windows will use the leftover space in sda2 to create sda3 if you tell it to. 10G is ample. Reboot. Check that Windows created and recognizes the new backup partition. Shutdown. Boot to DVD or USB and Install LL using the alongside option. You don't need all those separate partitions for LL and swap is unnecessary as LL uses swapfile. On a Windows dual boot MBR disk it's best to use as few partitions as possible as 5 is the general limit.

TC

I've been reading, trinidad.  The red section quote...  First thought you were referring to replacing deleted system recovery partition (mine is 14. + GB).  Then thought, "No, that is 'system image'."  Then thought, "Why don't you ask."

What is "a new backup partition...", please?

Thanks for the help...

Mike
 

 

Mike Krall

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Thanks DeepThought,

I've read about that problem when installing Windows after Linux... stayed away from that approach with other dual boots. My first dual boot was done because I was afraid of not having an OS I was familiar with.  The next two were done because the seller wouldn't  fulfill their warranty obligation on "a customized machine".  The machine I'm running now I only thought about dual booting for a couple of days then just dumped Windows out... and I'm really of the mind to dump Windows 7 out of the machine I'm talking about here, too.  Where's the wishy-washy 'Smilie'...  =]

Mike

 

 

Mike Krall

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Thanks, trinidad...

I don't get "On a Windows dual boot MBR disk it's best to use as few partitions as possible as 5 is the general limit."  I thought the controlling factors were simply no more than 4 primary partitions... OR... with one of four an extended partition, then quite a number of logical partitions could be made.  What don't I understand about this aspect of MBR HDD, if you would, please?

And, yes, it is a 64bit w/ MBR HDD.   

I have run the defragment  utility a couple of times this past two weeks... along with other 'tidy-up' utilities or checks. Hibernation is disabled.  I know I could disable page file and another to get around immovable blocks to make even more Shrink room, but that is really unnecessary given the 500 GB disk.  As of now there is 215253 MB available from Shrink.
------------------------------------

I do see how a partition of same size as recovery can be made, but I don't see how I get a partition for it out of /sda2 (C:), even as there is plenty of unused space.  Looked to me like I would make a /sda3 out of 'unallocated'.  Don't have info right now on how to get files from USB into the made-partition, either, but I assume I'll find it.

I think I'm going to go the swap partition road through adoption of "If it's not broke..."  I did read up on the swap file/partition discussions a bit as well as reviewing current 'swappiness' views.

Thanks again...   

Mike   





 

 

DeepThought

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@Mike Krall

Quote
Always before with Win/Linux dual boots I've had Linux after all of Windows.  It just worked out that way, really, but I'm thinking there may be a function logic in not having a Window partition hanging out at disk end.

It's been a long time since I dual booted or installed windows of any version lol, but I think this is down to the windows boot loader. Simply put the windows boot loader does not recognise a linux OS, only other windows versions.

So, while it is not impossible to install windows after installing linux, it does take extra work as the windows boot loader will overwrite the grub boot loader in the mbr. Grub, will recognise most OS' and is why installing linux after a windows partition is usually preferable for it to work out of the box.

Installing windows after linux involves reinstalling the grub boot loader to mbr from a live cd so that all OS' appear in the grub menu.
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trinidad

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I'm going to assume this is 64bit hardware and MBR. The first thing to do is completely defragment drive C using the Windows defrag tool. This can take quite some time if you haven't been running it on auto over the years. When that is complete your Windows 7 system should only need about 50G, but keep it at 100G . Shrink it to that size. Reboot. Delete sda3 (the 14G partition). Combine the leftover space and designate it all unallocated. Reboot. Create a new backup partition for Windows if you want. Windows will use the leftover space in sda2 to create sda3 if you tell it to. 10G is ample. Reboot. Check that Windows created and recognizes the new backup partition. Shutdown. Boot to DVD or USB and Install LL using the alongside option. You don't need all those separate partitions for LL and swap is unnecessary as LL uses swapfile. On a Windows dual boot MBR disk it's best to use as few partitions as possible as 5 is the general limit.

TC   
« Last Edit: May 13, 2020, 10:17:26 AM by trinidad »
All opinions expressed and all advice given by Trinidad Cruz on this forum are his responsibility alone and do not necessarily reflect the views or methods of the developers of Linux Lite. He is a citizen of the United States where it is acceptable to occasionally be uninformed and inept as long as you pay your taxes.
 

 

Mike Krall

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Thanks for the reply and thanks for the help... I had you with coffee this morning.  It's been a long day.

I've another question.  It has come up maybe a person ought to keep Windows 7.  It has it's uses... just shouldn't be run on the internet, or even connected to it. Apparently there are lots of holes in it since the support shut down in January.

I actually put Windows to use tonight.  A person can search into 'partitions' > 'Create and format hard disk partitions' > rt. clk. on 'Disk 0' in the graphic of disk partitions and see a choice of 'Convert to GPT Disk'... meaning the HDD is MBR.  So, after too much knocking around the net I know definitely what partitioning form I should use (middle choice, Arch Wiki link in first post)... /, swap, /home.

So IF, in the end, Windows stays, I know to use Windows Shrink to gain the unallocated space needed for Linux Lite.  The existing Windows partition structure is /sda1, 2, 3...  1.46GB Recovery (no actions allowed)...  448.66GB C: Boot, Page File, Crash Dump (many actions allowed)...  14.66GB Primary 'no name' (only 'delete' action active in list).  /sda3 is, I believe, the data/function a person would use to Recover.  We've got a USB working copy of it.   

I applied a 1000MB shrink of /sda2... the C: Drive... and it went fine.  It is sitting at the end of /sda2 with sda/3 afterwards.  I'm thinking maybe Windows wants to be all grouped up.  I'm pretty sure I've got (or can re find) info on moving partitions using Windows.  I know it can be done with GPartEd.  But is it really necessary?  IF  Windows 7 stays, can Windows live with a lump of Linux in between and /sda3 at disk end?

I know the first Linux partition needs to be 'extended' with /, swap, /home as logicals... /sda4... then 5, 6, 7. 

Always before with Win/Linux dual boots I've had Linux after all of Windows.  It just worked out that way, really, but I'm thinking there may be a function logic in not having a Window partition hanging out at disk end.

Some views would be appreciated.

Mike

Just to say...  The way I'd deal with Shrink and push /sda3 to disk end would be to make the shrink then reboot, run a disk/system check, reboot another time or two... just to make sure Windows was well aware of form and functional with it.
 

 

TheDead

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Hi,

If the BIOS type is Legacy/BIOS.
If no data is to be kept on disk
Go into GParted and erase all partitions / wipe the disk.
Repartition do MS-DOS / MBR.

Linux Lite 4.x and up (Ubuntu 18.04 and Up) use a Swap File so no swap partition needed.
If installing Linux Lite 3.x needs to create a swap partition SWAP type). I usually create a 2048MB (2G) partition at the end of the disk for this need.

But... not creating partition is OK too, wiping the disk and putting in MS-DOS/MBR works fine, since the installer will create all partitions needed.

Cheers!

NB : If UEFI is needed there is a Linux Lite 4.2 UEFI (upgradable to 4.8) somewhere in the forums. ;) - 5.x will be UEFI , you can test with 5.0 RC1 but it will not be upgradable to Final release.

- TheDead (TheUxNo0b)

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'Something Else' partitioning... unsure of disk type and BIOS settings
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2020, 03:41:43 AM »
 

Mike Krall

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2011-2012 Toshiba Satellite L750D - Windows 7... 4GB RAM... little AMD 2-core... 500GB HDD

Windows disk management shows MBR.

Belarc Advisor finds:  Boot Mode: Legacy BIOS in UEFI (Secure Boot not supported)

I've searched BIOS/firmware pages and do not find CSM or any other indication of disk-type switches.  It seems like this Hitachi HDD is GPT/UEFI but the firmware limits it to BIOS/MBR.  There is no 'Secure Boot's switch.  There is a "Normal/Fast" boot switch set "Normal".  Nothing else other than an "Enabled" USB Legacy to facilitate using mouse/keyboard not OS supported for USB.

I'm asking so I can install Linux Lite the way I'd like to with least potential for problems... fixings... reinstalls... ???
---------------------------------------------------

What I want to do:

Linux-only machine to be used as backup for other computers, and so Sarah can learn a little Linux, and to install other Linux OS just to see what they are like.  There would be NO shared data between OS's. Machine would not be used as backup storage for other computers either.

It looks to me like I can set up /, swap, /home and be done.  I'd set it that way so /home could be made smaller from the end of the disk and the new/unallocated space be used for another /, /home (same 'Name', same 'location', different user is what I think would work to avoid configuration problems).

What I see as needing to know is how to structure the partitions.  My reference for this is https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Partitioning  About 2/3's down the page is a series of partition charts relative to firmware/disk with partition recommendations.  I think this machine is the third type... "BIOS/GPT". 

So, I could use some advice and am happy to have views.
---------------------------------------------

I should say...  I've been running Linux since Ubuntu 6.06.  I've got a ton of Linux stuff in my head but don't actually know anything and will be a beginning beginner with Linux the rest of my days. I've set up three different Windows dual boots that all ended in Linux-only machines.  The last (this one) is Linux multi-boot with a shared data partition (/mnt/data via "OldFred" at Ubuntu Forums). I haven't done any of the mentioned without pretty serious step by step help... and that's what I'd like more of now.

Mike

   



« Last Edit: May 20, 2020, 01:03:04 PM by Mike Krall »
 

 

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