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Meltdown & Spectre Information and Discussion

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Re: Meltdown & Spectre Information and Discussion
« Reply #15 on: January 05, 2018, 07:22:51 AM »
 

trinidad

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To sum up myself: a nuisance with a price tag in manhours and compute time and a bad business practice from a company (Intel) that continues to operate above the law, and a community wide bandwagon of denial that everyone has been riding on for at least 10 years that I know of in the name of progress, Ethically speaking akin to testing drugs on people without having to pay them for the use of their body, claimed to be for the greater good of humanity. Driving at high speed is fun as long your brakes work properly, Ethics are the brakes.

TC 

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/policy/policy-code-conduct-corporate-information.html

Read the section on privacy.
Last Edit: January 05, 2018, 07:51:31 AM by trinidad
"You can't depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus."
 


Re: Meltdown & Spectre Information and Discussion
« Reply #16 on: January 05, 2018, 08:54:22 AM »
 

Jocklad

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So....If I am reading this right,We are going to get a software fix for a faulty hardware problem...?.  ::)
 

Re: Meltdown & Spectre Information and Discussion
« Reply #17 on: January 05, 2018, 10:03:24 AM »
 

richtea

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The Linus Torvalds email message is well worth reading; quote:


"I think somebody inside of Intel needs to really take a long hard look
at their CPU's, and actually admit that they have issues instead of
writing PR blurbs that say that everything works as designed."


Designed. Yes, in this instance the company is telling the truth.
Terry Davis Command Line video cracks me up.
Quod delere vos ego faciam permanens.
 

Re: Meltdown & Spectre Information and Discussion
« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2018, 09:56:53 AM »
 

trinidad

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(Intel CEO) Krzanich said the entire industry was planning to publish the data security issue once the fix was in place but the problem leaked early.
"Why did it leak ahead of time? Somebody was doing some updates on a Linux kernel and they improperly posted that this was due to this flaw," Krzanich said.

Exaclty who is the "entire industry" that so agreeably decided not to publish? Why is it "improper" to publish concerning a vulnerability, especially one that has been speculated about for years? Why would the US government drag its feet all this time? In fact Amazon (the only one that admits it "officially") was aware nearly two years ago. Suse Enterprise and RHEL well before that (which could aguably mean the whole Linux community). Why not publish? Proof of concept was obvious long ago. A working exploit was unneccessary. Why would the whole "white hat" community be coerced and/or intimidated by Intel not to publish? Intel's system of partnerships and non-disclosure agreements violates so many laws in the US that it is literally an issue for the ACLU, yet no one ever attempts to call them out. They are in general a national security issue for the US. Enough is enough. Funny how the annoncement didn't leak until after the Christmas buying season, a shame too. A good deep public panic would have given the WWW a much needed enema.

 http://www.techradar.com/news/computing-components/processors/need-for-speed-a-history-of-overclocking-540671/2

I honestly remember being aware of this issue sometime around 2001 and having a discussion about it with some other hobbyists from that era. We considered it trivial at the time, but I reported it via e-mail to Suse. I can't remember what ISP I had at the time (the one from Ohio not AOL and not Prodigy) I wish I could because other hobbyist over-clockers at the time were aware of it as well. There is a history of awareness of this flaw that goes back at least 15 years and eventually it's going to appear taking away Intel's hope of any plausible denial.
 
TC     
Last Edit: January 06, 2018, 10:45:22 AM by trinidad
"You can't depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus."
 

Re: Meltdown & Spectre Information and Discussion
« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2018, 09:40:11 PM »
 

JmaCWQ

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As interesting as all this is, and no doubt will become more interesting now as it all unfolds in the future, I can't say I'm surprised.
Big business usually doesn't give a sh*t about anything but big business.
I'd near bet if they weren't caught with their pants down it wouldn't have been published at all.
 

Re: Meltdown & Spectre Information and Discussion
« Reply #20 on: January 07, 2018, 07:33:14 AM »
 

bitsnpcs

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As interesting as all this is, and no doubt will become more interesting now as it all unfolds in the future, I can't say I'm surprised.
Big business usually doesn't give a sh*t about anything but big business.
I'd near bet if they weren't caught with their pants down it wouldn't have been published at all.
Last Edit: May 23, 2018, 06:06:22 AM by bitsnpcs
 

Re: Meltdown & Spectre Information and Discussion
« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2018, 07:54:49 AM »
 

bitsnpcs

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(Intel CEO) Krzanich said the entire industry was planning to publish the data security issue once the fix was in place but the problem leaked early.
"Why did it leak ahead of time? Somebody was doing some updates on a Linux kernel and they improperly posted that this was due to this flaw," Krzanich said.
TC     

I like the quote, it'll be good for paraphrasing - "(Intel CEO) Krzanich said, everything was fine until those rebellious Linux geeks moved their fingers"
 

Re: Meltdown & Spectre Information and Discussion
« Reply #22 on: January 07, 2018, 08:19:17 AM »
 

trinidad

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Ultimately the issue of computer security, in any sense whatsoever, is open source code. Speculative execution would not be a security issue at all if the processor code was open source. You cannot compare for bit parity for binaries you cannot access. We banged this around years ago and recommended dual CPU's and one bank of protected memory for low level binary comparisons. As long as OEM vendors refuse access to binary setups there is no solution that will ever be secure. The amount of patching in Debian is probably headed for fifty different specific application instances. At the high end, giant service providers are going to absorb a big hit and be forced to purchase more rack space to deal with the performance issues this ridiculous proprietary policy has caused. Intel's partnerships are just extortion in this sense and always have been. 

TC 
"You can't depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus."
 

Re: Meltdown & Spectre Information and Discussion
« Reply #23 on: January 08, 2018, 02:53:24 AM »
 

kissbaby3

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 8)  i am not too freaked out by all this , a flaw since what ?, 1995 ?, wow, ok. i suffered viruses through the years since windows 98SE, so again, not to freaked out by this .

 ???  any ways , has Linux Lite released some updates on this issue for Linux lite 3.6 ?.

my windows 10 machine has been fixed by me, ha  ha , it was a outdated driver issue, now ready to bring back down my Linux machine from upstairs and plug it back in........ i miss my Linux.
windows is for my Husband, he so far has no problems with my machine , but he is a cave man and needs  more how to attention.............
 

Re: Meltdown & Spectre Information and Discussion
« Reply #24 on: January 08, 2018, 07:25:26 AM »
 

trinidad

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Class Action investigation against Intel, the first taker.

https://www.bgandg.com/intc

A pdf copy of the action is available on the page.

From 2005 MIT:

https://ocw.mit.edu/courses/electrical-engineering-and-computer-science/6-823-computer-system-architecture-fall-2005/lecture-notes/l13_brnchpred.pdf

TC
Last Edit: January 08, 2018, 08:15:32 AM by trinidad
"You can't depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus."
 

Re: Meltdown & Spectre Information and Discussion
« Reply #25 on: January 08, 2018, 11:12:41 AM »
 

elelme

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Interesting catch! Thanks, Trinidad, for both of these.
 

Re: Meltdown & Spectre Information and Discussion
« Reply #26 on: January 08, 2018, 03:21:33 PM »
 

richtea

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Krzanich talks his book, but will he walk the (perp) walk?


https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-01-08/it-doesnt-look-good-intel-ceo-jeopardy-selling-stock-after-learning-staggering-flaw

Bring Comey back - why, he wiped the floor with Martha Stewart!
Terry Davis Command Line video cracks me up.
Quod delere vos ego faciam permanens.
 

Re: Meltdown & Spectre Information and Discussion
« Reply #27 on: January 11, 2018, 06:21:59 AM »
 

Vera

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Ubuntu plan to release Kernel updates early next week, in or around the 9th.

Do we have any news on the status of Ubuntu kernel updates to fix this issue?
Using Linux Lite for everything now. I put it on my desktop and my laptop. Woohoo!
 

Re: Meltdown & Spectre Information and Discussion
« Reply #28 on: January 11, 2018, 07:39:47 AM »
 

trinidad

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Kernel 4.4.0-109.132 is out for LTS. Fix for meltdown began at .131 I believe. This is not a complete fix all for Ubuntu OS. Older hardware will not respond to the update in many cases because of incomplete firmware. This whole thing is an ugly ugly mess for Debian. The main issue will be for people who run older hardware without firmware updates, and connect to virtual server instances that have firmware updates. They may find they cannot connect to their server. The exploit 1 of spectre is already mitigated in firefox but exploit 2 will not be fully mitigated for quite some time and people with older hardware may find themselves out of luck. If you are running anit-virus your provider will have had to issue a flag to your system to install the changes. I have some reticence about installing the meltdown mitigations at all, given other issues with Intel. I am slowly working my way through all the documentation on the exploits, but a cursory examination makes me a little itchy, given the impact on some common server administration tools, and given Intels other issues I am not so sure that the mitigation for meltdown will not open a wider door for specter exploit 2 due to a lack of pointer obfuscation. I don't think there's any need for home users to rush into this at this point other than the virtual server connection issues. Let the industry giants worry about it, and let Debian run its course through the mess the Debian way -- slowly via the community. There may be a worst case scenario for all of this akin to emmision testing for automobiles.

TC
"You can't depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus."
 

Re: Meltdown & Spectre Information and Discussion
« Reply #29 on: January 11, 2018, 08:51:08 AM »
 

Jerry

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Thanks TC :)
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Jerry Bezencon
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Learn to use your emotions to think, not think with your emotions.



 


 


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