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XFCE vs KDE

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Re: XFCE vs KDE
« Reply #132 on: January 27, 2020, 03:04:02 AM »
 

tikiti

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You have to know the history of KDE to understand that phrasing. Google is your friend :)

O Great Sir! Would thy be kind enough to share the secret? Would save me some time!  :P
Now is the only reality. All else is either memory or imagination. - Osho
 

Re: XFCE vs KDE
« Reply #131 on: January 27, 2020, 02:04:28 AM »
 

Jerry

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You have to know the history of KDE to understand that phrasing. Google is your friend :)
 

Re: XFCE vs KDE
« Reply #130 on: January 26, 2020, 10:35:56 AM »
 

tikiti

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Isn't KDE & Plasma one? It's KDE Plasma right? Or are they 2 seperate DE? I'm confused! https://kde.org/plasma-desktop

KDE is a community of people who make software including the plasma desktop https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KDE_Plasma_5 (do check the external links, there a few very interesting ones ) which many people refer to as KDE and that's because in the early days it was simply called the KDE desktop where KDE used to stand for Kool Desktop Evironment https://kde.org/announcements/beta1announce.php but that's not the case anymore and the "official" name is plasma desktop, developed by the KDE community.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K_Desktop_Environment_1

If that's the case then why does Jerry say "I really like KDE" & "Plasma is really nice too." as if they are two seperate Desktop Environment. Tell us Jerry!
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Re: XFCE vs KDE
« Reply #129 on: January 25, 2020, 01:56:35 PM »
 

Moltke

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Isn't KDE & Plasma one? It's KDE Plasma right? Or are they 2 seperate DE? I'm confused! https://kde.org/plasma-desktop

KDE is a community of people who make software including the plasma desktop https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KDE_Plasma_5 (do check the external links, there a few very interesting ones ) which many people refer to as KDE and that's because in the early days it was simply called the KDE desktop where KDE used to stand for Kool Desktop Evironment https://kde.org/announcements/beta1announce.php but that's not the case anymore and the "official" name is plasma desktop, developed by the KDE community.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K_Desktop_Environment_1
« Last Edit: January 25, 2020, 02:00:40 PM by Moltke »
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Re: XFCE vs KDE
« Reply #128 on: January 25, 2020, 06:23:20 AM »
 

tikiti

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How has that happened?  KDE on par with Xfce?!  Not long ago I would have thought it impossible.
The main difference is that KDE has a massive, almost inexhaustible supply of developers, where as XFCE have just a handful. I really like KDE and how close it is to Windows and the level of configuration available. Plasma is really nice too.

Sent from my Mobile phone using Tapatalk

Isn't KDE & Plasma one? It's KDE Plasma right? Or are they 2 seperate DE? I'm confused! https://kde.org/plasma-desktop
Now is the only reality. All else is either memory or imagination. - Osho
 

Re: XFCE vs KDE
« Reply #127 on: January 24, 2020, 12:39:38 PM »
 

Jerry

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Re: XFCE vs KDE
« Reply #126 on: January 24, 2020, 09:40:18 AM »
 

trinidad

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@Jerry The RAM numbers are rising on DEs across the board, but modern hardware is getting bigger too. 4G is the new minimum on old hardware in general. I did notice that loading Kubuntu plasma hit my CPU a lot harder than loading LL, but that could just be the kernel difference. Both RAM use settled in around 400m after loading. My gnome desktops settle pretty close to 1G so 500M is not too bad.

@Moltke Debian 10 does not allow Xauthority and DISPLAY to be passed to a child. I may have given you the wrong backend prefix. (I didn't know you were on Deb 10). Prefix your sudo command with GDK_BACKEND=x11 and maybe you'll have to prefix that with DISPLAY=:0 I don't install sudo on my Deb systems so I'm not sure this will work, but I can just run a root terminal and backend prefix nautilus and get nautilus in root on X. Same with synaptic and any application that requires Xauthority, though I never use it anymore except with SSH.

@TheDead That's how I look getting in and out of my girlfriends Honda.

TC
 
All opinions expressed and all advice given by Trinidad Cruz on this forum are his responsibility alone and do not necessarily reflect the views or methods of the developers of Linux Lite. He is a citizen of the United States where it is acceptable to occasionally be uninformed and inept as long as you pay your taxes.
 

Re: XFCE vs KDE
« Reply #125 on: January 24, 2020, 09:05:27 AM »
 

TheDead

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530MB? Thats about a 40% increase!
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Re: XFCE vs KDE
« Reply #124 on: January 23, 2020, 09:03:09 PM »
 

Jerry

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@trinidad thanks, I appreciate your write-up. I saw a comment on a LL Youtube video today, "If Jerry does make a KDE spin he should calling Linux Lead" So there will be for a long time, the perception that KDE is heavy. It's a good thing we're not rushing into this. In some preliminary tests, this new Series 5.x XFCE is a lot heavier than in the past, and I mean noticeably. I can't get it to settle below 530mb fresh boot to the Desktop. Worrying.
 

Re: XFCE vs KDE
« Reply #123 on: January 23, 2020, 10:36:46 AM »
 

trinidad

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Well my years away from Kubuntu have left me a little rusty, but after running it for a couple days I have some comments.

On the positive side:
1) It is by far the most Windows 10 like Linux distribution I have yet to encounter, in both appearance and function.
2) The desktop is stunning.
3) Konsole, Dolphin, Kate & Discover have wonderful options and functionality. Update is the best I've seen anywhere.

On the negative side:
1) Kubuntu is definitely not a beginner OS, mainly because of too many powerful features. The vast majority of Windows users don't know how to use Windows properly, and they might find Kubuntu's DE just as dizzying as Windows 10 even though it would be familiar. i/e Most Windows users hated Windows 10 over Windows 7 even though 10 was considerably superior in the guts.
2) The help manual alone would require a massive effort to bring up to Linux Lite standards.

My expectations Jerry:
1) The known special qualities of Linux Lite, the way you work, the philosophy of designing a simple fast free system that Windows users can be comfortable with and learn quickly would all come into play with a KDE version of LL. Your effort would make or break the thing. Too many features, too many functions, too complicated of a DE might not match the established LL cachet. I'm sure you would put your spin on KDE Linux Lite, and as far as the future goes KDE will probably prove to be the best choice, and in my opinion it is the most Windows like, but it is your effort and philosophy that puts the mark on Linux Lite and this community, and it is certain that change will always be met with hostility from some quarter deserved or not. Selfishly, I hope you undertake the project, because I think Linux Lite has something to offer KDE, rather than the other way around, something elegantly simple, and something very stable, usable, and above all...  "learnable". (I know it's not a word but it should be these days)

TC
All opinions expressed and all advice given by Trinidad Cruz on this forum are his responsibility alone and do not necessarily reflect the views or methods of the developers of Linux Lite. He is a citizen of the United States where it is acceptable to occasionally be uninformed and inept as long as you pay your taxes.
 

Re: XFCE vs KDE
« Reply #122 on: January 22, 2020, 07:41:11 PM »
 

Moltke

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What system is your KDE on?
 

Debian Buster. I created a Live USB with rufus which now has the option to create Live USBs with persistent mode in a very easy way, yes, easier than mkusb ( I really wish it was ported to Linux but the depv has already said he won't :(  ) I did that since I'm running it in a laptop with no HDD.  I installed KDE and who knows, maybe that's why it doesn't work. 

Quote
I created root access in my KDE LL build. Took a few hours of research to get a reliable, working fix.

Very nice! :) but I don't think it'll work for me here.
 
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Re: XFCE vs KDE
« Reply #121 on: January 22, 2020, 06:36:50 PM »
 

Jerry

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I created root access in my KDE LL build. Took a few hours of research to get a reliable, working fix.
This is the way it would be implemented for Dolphin & Kwrite:

.desktops: (may have to create folders)
~/.local/share/kservicess5/ServiceMenus/

polkits:
/usr/share/polkit-1/actions

Create a polkit file for Dolphin:

com.ubuntu.pkexec.dolphin.policy

Code: [Select]
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<!DOCTYPE policyconfig PUBLIC
  "-//freedesktop//DTD PolicyKit Policy Configuration 1.0//EN"
  "http://www.freedesktop.org/standards/PolicyKit/1/policyconfig.dtd">
<policyconfig>
 
  <vendor>Linux Lite</vendor>
  <vendor_url>https://linuxliteos.com/</vendor_url>
 
  <action id="com.ubuntu.pkexec.dolphin">
    <message>Authentication is required to run Dolphin</message>
    <icon_name>window-close</icon_name>
    <defaults>
      <allow_any>auth_admin</allow_any>
      <allow_inactive>auth_admin</allow_inactive>
      <allow_active>auth_admin</allow_active>
    </defaults>
    <annotate key="org.freedesktop.policykit.exec.path">/usr/bin/dolphin</annotate>
    <annotate key="org.freedesktop.policykit.exec.allow_gui">true</annotate>
  </action>

</policyconfig>

.desktop for Dolphin:

dolphin-root.desktop

Code: [Select]
[Desktop Action root]
Exec=pkexec dolphin
Icon=window-close
Name=Open as Admin

[Desktop Entry]
Actions=root
Icon=window-close
MimeType=inode/directory
ServiceTypes=KonqPopupMenu/Plugin
Type=Service
X-KDE-Priority=TopLevel
X-KDE-StartupNotify=false

For Kwrite, rinse and repeat, just change where obvious.
 

Re: XFCE vs KDE
« Reply #120 on: January 22, 2020, 05:28:51 PM »
 

trinidad

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What system is your KDE on? Redhat, Fedora, Suse, Debian, Mint or Neon? In Debian you can use dconf editor to get Dolphin root, and in Kubuntu LTS root access is already there in Dolphin in red in the side pane. My curiosity got the better of me so I fired up a VM of Kubuntu LTS today. What a beautiful DE. Many of the interfaces are reminiscent of Windows 10. The update interface in Discover is outstanding looking. My interest is piqued now. I gave up completely on Kubuntu at 14.04 but the new interface is outstanding. Personally I only use Debian gnome anymore since Deb 8, so it may take me a while to get used to the KDE interface and QT command chain again. The only system I have sudo installed on is Linux Lite so I forget sometimes that things work a little differently now. Also you can control the graphical backend for applications from Debian user space easier than on some other systems. It may be hard to believe but Debian gnome is the easiest steadiest system I've ever used. Been on it through 8, 9, and 10 now. I actually find a few of the ones called easy to use annoyingly difficult to keep stable. LL is an exception to that rule which is why I install it for new users.

TC
 
All opinions expressed and all advice given by Trinidad Cruz on this forum are his responsibility alone and do not necessarily reflect the views or methods of the developers of Linux Lite. He is a citizen of the United States where it is acceptable to occasionally be uninformed and inept as long as you pay your taxes.
 

Re: XFCE vs KDE
« Reply #119 on: January 22, 2020, 02:36:03 PM »
 

Moltke

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"Dolphin is a great file manager, I don't think or can't say its better than thunar since it doesn't support root mode which is disabled by default and I use that quite a lot, then again, I can do the same things from the terminal only that it feels more confortable using a GUI."

Try this from a root terminal: # QT_QPA_PLATFORM=x11 dolphin
Should open dolphin as root under x11. If it errors run a nested Xserver set a display number i/e 8 and open it there with the same command, but prefixed with: DISPLAY=8

The days of running graphical applications from root are ending. Too many bugs and too much security risk.  QT5 (newest KDE) runs on Xwayland or wayland thus the lack of root graphical application access. The security risk of the xinput utility (which has not been in Debian default installs since Deb 7, but is still in default Ubuntu and all XFCE) is reason enough to not use Xorg not to mention many patches in C code thrown about in the server source that are not coded precisely enough to be considered stable or secure. Of course xinput tools are not transparent under wayland and neither is the weak Xserver code.

TC

Thanks for the suggestion @trinidad  but it didnt work, got this error message
Code: [Select]
root[member=7109]Moltke[/member]-pc:/home/moltke# QT_QPA_PLATFORM=x11 dolphin
Executing Dolphin with sudo is not possible due to unfixable security vulnerabilities.
Well, like I said I can do the stuff I do, i.e copy files from or into some directory which I can't as a non-root user via terminal, so it's not like this is a "critical neccesary" feature for me let alone new first time Linux users who may or may not know about running graphical apps as root. I kind of knew that it wouldn't work cause I tried by installing a service that enables root operations within dolphin and that didn't wok either. 
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Re: XFCE vs KDE
« Reply #118 on: January 22, 2020, 10:23:37 AM »
 

trinidad

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"Dolphin is a great file manager, I don't think or can't say its better than thunar since it doesn't support root mode which is disabled by default and I use that quite a lot, then again, I can do the same things from the terminal only that it feels more confortable using a GUI."

Try this from a root terminal: # QT_QPA_PLATFORM=x11 dolphin
Should open dolphin as root under x11. If it errors run a nested Xserver set a display number i/e 8 and open it there with the same command, but prefixed with: DISPLAY=8

The days of running graphical applications from root are ending. Too many bugs and too much security risk.  QT5 (newest KDE) runs on Xwayland or wayland thus the lack of root graphical application access. The security risk of the xinput utility (which has not been in Debian default installs since Deb 7, but is still in default Ubuntu and all XFCE) is reason enough to not use Xorg not to mention many patches in C code thrown about in the server source that are not coded precisely enough to be considered stable or secure. Of course xinput tools are not transparent under wayland and neither is the weak Xserver code.

TC 
All opinions expressed and all advice given by Trinidad Cruz on this forum are his responsibility alone and do not necessarily reflect the views or methods of the developers of Linux Lite. He is a citizen of the United States where it is acceptable to occasionally be uninformed and inept as long as you pay your taxes.
 

 

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