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XFCE vs KDE

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Re: XFCE vs KDE
« Reply #60 on: December 24, 2019, 11:53:45 PM »
 

MS

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The noise around transitioning of LL from XFCE to KDE should grant it some extra media attention.
 


Re: XFCE vs KDE
« Reply #61 on: December 25, 2019, 11:20:34 AM »
 

Moltke

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but for how you portrayed the vision of prefabricated distros altogether, I start to believe everyone should actually assemble their own distro, albeit this would not be particularly Windows-folk friendly, right?

Well, you learn a lot about the system when you install every component by yourself, however, some distros like LL, MX-Linux, Manjaro do a very good job providing basic apps and features to get you started, so I guess  "everyone should actually assemble their own distro" is not necessarily true since having people like Jerry doing the hard work and doing it so well for you so you can just enjoy your OS out of the box, making your "computing life" easier, might be the safest path to take cause assembling an OS might not be as easy and simple as it sounds, in fact, it's not.

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The default Menu is growing on me. The more I use and customize it, the easier it appears for me to use.

I've been playing with KDE's desktop Plasma since yesterday morning, so it's been almost 2 days since I last logged to xfce lol and I feel the same about the menu; search capabilities are really handy. I've been using a lot krunner too which I've always found a must-have feature - I use cerebro in xfce to have something "similar" not as powerful though - I've solved the kwin issue and it starts at boot fine now. I finally learnt how to set my keyboard shortcuts, it was easier than I thought actually. Also, regarding sweet sddm theme, which I failed to install before cause I'd done it the wrong way and the right one it's as easy as going to system preferences/settings >>  startup and shutdown >> login screen - not sure this is the actual English wording since mine is in Spanish - and install the theme from there. Been reading here https://userbase.kde.org/Plasma/Tips and had applied some of those tips & tricks which are quite helpful.  RAM usage is around 450mb at boot.

 

This is running on Debian Sid in a VM. :)
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Re: XFCE vs KDE
« Reply #62 on: December 26, 2019, 08:59:13 PM »
 

tek10

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Considering the potential benefits Jerry has mentioned, I would have no concerns about a Lite KDE.

My introduction and 1st Linux distro was Knoppix, from a live cd. It sent me looking for a KDE based distro to install, and I eventually replaced Windows 7 with Kubuntu. That was back in 2012 and KDE has really improved with the development of Plasma 5. Most new Windows converts will have hardware that would have no problem with today's KDE, especially if it's properly preconfigured.

For really old hardware there are better options than either xfce or KDE. That type of computer user is not what I would perceive as the target audience for Lite.

The Lite team can configure KDE to be very similar in appearance and basic operation to Windows, and to perform wonderfully on any hardware that can run Windows 10. Since it's modern and highly configurable, users can customize their OS as their confidence and skills improve with use. Sticking with Lite as a result, there are more likely to be recommendations to friends to try Lite as a first Linux OS.

As a final thought, since Mint has dropped their KDE version, there would be more differentiation of Lite as a beginner Linux OS.
 

Re: XFCE vs KDE
« Reply #63 on: December 26, 2019, 09:27:10 PM »
 

tek10

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The rapid pace of KDE development against a - shall we say "slow and steady" - platform like Debian/Ubuntu means that the released version of Plasma can be years ahead of what is available to end users. There are ongoing conflicts with Qt versions clashing with some apps as well.

In fairness I think that you do need to be on a rolling release base like PCLOS in order to get the benefit of the development process which is behind KDE.

While true to a degree, with the Ubuntu LTS base, it would be only 2 years old if a user upgraded to the next LL Series shortly after release. I'm seeing a trend for more and more people to want a stable OS vs cutting edge. The KDE team has likely made the same observation and makes a Plasma LTS. This would seem to fit the target audience of LL.


A much less desirable possibility would be basing LL on KDE neon...
 

Re: XFCE vs KDE
« Reply #64 on: December 27, 2019, 05:12:00 AM »
 

Jerry

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A much less desirable possibility would be basing LL on KDE neon...


Wouldn't happen. All our builds are based off LL, we don't need to base off anyone elses full distro :)
 

Re: XFCE vs KDE
« Reply #65 on: December 27, 2019, 11:08:45 AM »
 

trinidad

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KDE Neon is not really a distribution. A user has the opportunity to "tune" it into one and use daily build software from KDE, but stability and constant updates would make it a poor choice for a new user DE. Good user friendly examples of KDE desktops with stability would be Suse Enterprise or Debian stable, and a little less so RHEL and Ubuntu LTS. LL could be added to that list given its base stability.

On another point in this discussion LL going to "rolling release" would be a deal breaker for me and for me recommending LL as a starter DE for Windows refugees.

Also Qt has its own list  of problems, though probably not insurmountable on a "stable" release type distribution.
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Re: XFCE vs KDE
« Reply #66 on: December 27, 2019, 01:02:22 PM »
 

Jerry

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LTS only!

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Re: XFCE vs KDE
« Reply #67 on: December 28, 2019, 04:47:56 PM »
 

TheDead

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@Jerry
The pictures you sent showing descriptions in the menu almost sold me KDE! ;)
If you can have that and categories I"ll give it a try in your test build.

Also, is KDE easier to manage for appearance setting. icons and "theme-ing" than XFCE?
I always had some trouble going from one config page to another for basically the "looks" of the DE.

And side question, do you have to re-program your Lite "softwares" for KDE? :-S
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Re: XFCE vs KDE
« Reply #68 on: December 28, 2019, 08:15:59 PM »
 

Moltke

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@Jerry
The pictures you sent showing descriptions in the menu almost sold me KDE! ;)
If you can have that and categories I"ll give it a try in your test build.

Also, is KDE easier to manage for appearance setting. icons and "theme-ing" than XFCE?
I always had some trouble going from one config page to another for basically the "looks" of the DE.

And side question, do you have to re-program your Lite "softwares" for KDE? :-S

@TheDead yes, you can add categories if that's what's you're asking https://docs.kde.org/trunk5/en/kde-workspace/kmenuedit/quickstart.html 

Easier to theme than XFCE? It depends on your definition of "easier", I find it not particularly difficult if that helps. :)
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Re: XFCE vs KDE
« Reply #69 on: December 29, 2019, 02:02:50 AM »
 

Jerry

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Also, is KDE easier to manage for appearance setting. icons and "theme-ing" than XFCE?
I always had some trouble going from one config page to another for basically the "looks" of the DE.

And side question, do you have to re-program your Lite "softwares" for KDE? :-S

Piece of cake to theme, there's even a button to click on to 'download more themes'. Click and install for our target audience :)
System Settings aka Control Center has everything you need to control your pc, a one stop shop that I've always appreciated and eliminates the need for apps like Lite Sounds, Lite User Manager etc. Keeps the main Menu clean to!
Lite Softwares - there's always some recoding to do each Series as dependencies and environments evolve.

System Settings:

 

Re: XFCE vs KDE
« Reply #70 on: December 30, 2019, 02:21:30 AM »
 

robinc

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Just had a quick look at the state of KDE Plasma - still as horrible as ever.

If LL is going down this route I'll say goodbye now.

Thanks, but no thanks  :( :( :(
 

Re: XFCE vs KDE
« Reply #71 on: December 30, 2019, 04:07:01 AM »
 

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One of the reasons a lot of us prefer Xfce is because of it's "slow" development.  There have been no huge, major, sudden changes to the Xfce desktop that are so severe you can hardly recognize it, as has been the case with both Gnome and KDE.  While the Big Guys have lots of great features and stuff, their rapid development inevitably leads to bugs, regressions, and sudden incompatibility with some software.  Give me slow and steady any day.
 

Re: XFCE vs KDE
« Reply #72 on: December 30, 2019, 07:51:13 AM »
 

robinc

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One of the reasons a lot of us prefer Xfce is because of it's "slow" development.  There have been no huge, major, sudden changes to the Xfce desktop that are so severe you can hardly recognize it, as has been the case with both Gnome and KDE.  While the Big Guys have lots of great features and stuff, their rapid development inevitably leads to bugs, regressions, and sudden incompatibility with some software.  Give me slow and steady any day.
The only horrids coming down the wire for XFCE are in the full move to GTK3 - so no more simple config files to tweak xfce - now it's all .css - YUK!!!

Try out MX-19 if you want to see the future for XFCE - most of it is pretty OK, and indeed on the surface little has changed - but I really really hate drop shadow text on the desktop and whilst it is easy to remove in XFCE now, in 4.14 it isn't quite so simple.

Between now and 18.04 expiry date there's a few years so maybe something else will pop out of the woodwork  ;)
 

Re: XFCE vs KDE
« Reply #73 on: December 30, 2019, 12:06:08 PM »
 

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One of the reasons a lot of us prefer Xfce is because of it's "slow" development. 

I don't prefer Xfce because of its slow development.  I prefer Linux Lite and it happened to be using Xfce.  The people I've helped move to Linux via Linux Lite don't give a hoot, either.  They just want something that works, is fast, and looks good.  I think we need to trust the founder of Linux Lite on any changes keeping in step with the distro being friendly to the new Linux convert.  He's already stated in this thread that if KDE is used in the future, it will be part of an LTS (Long Term Support) build. 

I personally think Linux Lite has done a fantastic job with Xfce, and it looks great.  But it still looks closer to Windows XP or Windows 2000 than Windows 10.  And for some newbies, that's a step back.  To have a modern look, more functionality, and still be lighter weight than even Xfce...it would be foolish to ignore the possibilities, and that is what Jerry is investigating.

Take a chill pill and let him do his thing.
Last Edit: December 30, 2019, 12:44:51 PM by torreydale
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Re: XFCE vs KDE
« Reply #74 on: December 30, 2019, 12:20:15 PM »
 

Jerry

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Thanks torreydale, once again you've absolutely nailed my position here.

This is going to be a bloody tough decision here, one that deserves a wide, open and varied collection of opinions. Trust that whatever is decided upon in 2 years, it is purely for our target audience. In all facets of this topic, time is on our side.

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