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General => Off Topic => Topic started by: MS on August 21, 2019, 01:28:40 AM

Title: Tips for buying hardware?
Post by: MS on August 21, 2019, 01:28:40 AM
Do you have any tips when it comes to buying hardware?

I have a rule, which majority of times seems relevant to me not only in terms of choosing the hardware, but for any kind of consumerism in general. It is that all things relevant for life are at comparably reasonable prices, while supplementary observation is that only things superfluous are rare and pricey. Do you agree with it?

What about buying new versus used? Personally, I tend to go for the new, but I know a lot of people - both when it comes to buying, say, a car as much as a computer - would tell it is a squandering solution, making one have qualitatively less for as much or even more money.

Laptops themselves are kind of a controversial choice. In my view, "gaming laptop" is an oxymoron, at least compared to desktops, but still, I am very much a dedicated laptop user. Nonetheless, I am not very much a dedicated gamer. I know people, though, who would always go for a desktop.

Wonder how - or rather, when - the world of streaming services will impact the customer preferences when it comes to buying hardware. Wonder if desktops will actually ever become marginal.
Title: Re: Tips for buying hardware?
Post by: m654321 on August 21, 2019, 05:45:02 AM
Here in the UK, you can get good quality stuff for free (including old computers ) that people would normally throw out in their garbage, through an organization called Freegle: https://www.ilovefreegle.org/ (https://www.ilovefreegle.org/)   I'm always surprised by what folk throw away!

For example today I'm picking up a Packard-Bell Easynote Ajax-C3 and a Medion Mim 2080 laptops. Maybe not the world's fastest PCs, but man they're free! Apparently both are dragging their heels on Win7, so I'm going to bring them back to life by 'LL-ing' them, then give them away to those that need a PC but can't afford one.

Due to real global concern about the environment, I'm loathe to buy brand-new, particularly electronics gadgets, which are really bad for the environment and are becoming an increasing problem. Getting laptops that would otherwise go to landfill & pollute, plus the thrill of getting them up and running again on Linux, and giving them away for free is something I enjoy and get great satisfaction from ...
Title: Re: Tips for buying hardware?
Post by: TheDead on August 21, 2019, 08:24:04 AM
Problem with used laptops is the battery.If the previous owner always had it plugin, this can cause premature battery failure.
If you need the laptop on the road, buying a used one for a bargain and having to find and shell out more than the laptop price for a new battery could be a pain.I only recommend official manufacturer batteries and not ebay "clones" that are notorious for having issue or not work at all.Problem is the official ones can drain wallets.
For desktop, I suggest something local that you can see before you buy.And you have to know your stuff or have a friend who does because anything could be inside, good and bad components.
** most important, buying something used always has a chance to have leaking capacitors after a few years.This is less and less likely with newer harware since they use solid capacitors though.
Title: Re: Tips for buying hardware?
Post by: MS on August 21, 2019, 02:24:02 PM
Quote from: TheDead
And you have to know your stuff or have a friend who does because anything could be inside, good and bad components.
Seems like a rule number one for going used hardware.

@m654321, the electrotrash is a major concern if to think wider, but on the other hand, not everything in life is so idealistic. I mean, I am using my 10~15$ mobile phone sixth year in a row now, which is my only mobile phone and I do it also because out of awareness there is no need to generate further electrotrash if everything works fine. The problem is, though, when I want something new, I want something new, y'know.

I am also a minimalist and would avoid duplicating devices when it comes to fulfilling similar functions. Which is, I would rather not have a tablet and a laptop both or a dedicated GPS and a smartphone both.

When it comes to new versus used, wonder if computer hardware can be compared to car engines, where the new generations of car engines may oftentimes provide superior performance and better ecological behaviour even with arguably lower specifications, thinking first of all about lower capacity?
Title: Re: Tips for buying hardware?
Post by: m654321 on August 21, 2019, 03:35:41 PM
Quote
When it comes to new versus used, wonder if computer hardware can be compared to car engines, where the new generations of car engines may oftentimes provide superior performance and better ecological behaviour

That's a really good analogy MS, which made me rethink. While getting more mileage out of old computers is possible with Linux, older ones are not as energy efficient as the more modern ones. So you may save the planet for a bit longer by keeping older kit, but you may guzzle up more energy in day-to-day running costs than newer kit ...
Title: Re: Tips for buying hardware?
Post by: bernard stafford on August 21, 2019, 08:03:44 PM
Research the products before considering purchase.     :)     https://www.zdnet.com/topic/hardware/ (https://www.zdnet.com/topic/hardware/)    ;) 8)

I agree about re-purposing old computers. As long as it is feasible to do so. New OS [Linux] or just have an extra HDD or other parts laying around not being used.
That makes it very feasible. 
Title: Re: Tips for buying hardware?
Post by: MS on August 22, 2019, 01:36:46 AM
When it comes to the comparison between cars and computers, I think the electric cars are pretty much what the cloud services are going to be in respective areas, impact-wise. Both the electric cars and the cloud services mean severe change in the dynamics and economy of how the world is probably going to look like, which we may actually witness to unfold. Speaking of cars, think about gas stations. For now, very few parts of the world offer evolved infrastructure for electric cars loading up in hyperefficient or even semi-efficient manner. There are various kinds of these loaders - or how is it called. Understandably, Tesla is the tech leader, but those are luxurious cars indeed, nonetheless the technology is slowly approaching middle and lower grade standards as well. I know Smart offers something in that line. Now, gas stations will certainly provide traditional fuels for a long time to come, but how will they manage shifting of balance? They will become more of recreational centres perhaps, allowing customers to have some leisure while the electric car charges up for a good while that it takes, depending again on the quality of infrastructure employed. For now, I would honestly not buy an electric car, due to the lack of sensible common infrastructure for it in my area.

Think about cloud services in this context. The same very problem, namely, the lack of proper infrastructure, but this time, we talk about the Internet. Few people, in my guess, will actually buy Google Stadia PRO, because simply their Internet limitations will hardly anyhow allow them to even make better sense of the Google Stadia Basic. For those new to the topic: both the mentioned options address the quality of streaming, with the "PRO" service going further than the "Basic", which increases Internet bandwidth consumption. Even though there is little doubt the future - perhaps more distant future - belongs to the cloud services, for now, it is quite a vague option, reserved only for certain geographical areas, where the infrastructure is considered not yet ready to swiftly handle the extended standard but just good enough to have a start.

We may also unfortunately experience the effects of some corruption going on behind the scenes, slowing down the progress of adaptation to new technologies taking over the market. Simply, corporations primarily selling hardware cannot allow themselves to loose profitable, sometimes the only real fields of making profit.

Analogous problems could address both the electric cars, as well as the cloud services.

It is thrilling nonetheless to observe the changes progressively occur.

EDIT:

Perhaps with the electric cars, rechargeable and replaceable batteries could be a significant improvement.
Title: Re: Tips for buying hardware?
Post by: TheDead on August 22, 2019, 08:16:53 AM
I am also a minimalist and would avoid duplicating devices when it comes to fulfilling similar functions.
You mean like this? ;) :(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/3f/0b/a7/3f0ba70ca6db9823f056b7ceef13a9ea.jpg)

... , but you may guzzle up more energy in day-to-day running costs than newer kit ...
I sometimes wonder if it's like washing a really dirty/greasy little plastic container before recycling.Is all the hot water/energy and soap needed balancing the trashing of the thing...
Title: Re: Tips for buying hardware?
Post by: The Repairman on August 22, 2019, 11:21:16 AM
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Title: Re: Tips for buying hardware?
Post by: Sprintrdriver on August 22, 2019, 06:24:06 PM
I have noticed some discussion on various forums and mention on youtube (no I ave no link) that graphic cards from AMD is preferable over Nvidia because of AMD use open source drivers.

Truth being told, I don't really know how relevant that is when consider buying a specific computer for use with Linux.
Title: Re: Tips for buying hardware?
Post by: The Repairman on August 22, 2019, 10:05:09 PM
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Title: Re: Tips for buying hardware?
Post by: MS on August 23, 2019, 02:28:35 AM
@TheDead, if I wanted a "SPORK", I would buy a decent tablet. It is the most compact choice. Unnecessarily the most efficient. The cost of a decent tablet may match the combined costs of the following: a gaming console for dedicated gaming, a GPS for dedicated navigation, a Chromebook sort of a laptop for web browsing and office jobs. Separate devices are also perhaps more intuitive to use, despite how friendly a "compact" device could be. The more the functions, the more the convolution. In the end, it would consume a lot of your time seeking out the best software for given task, perhaps ending up in a situation where nevertheless you would be required to pay extra. For dedicated devices, this is choosing a targeted infrastructure, which means, there is an entire network of institutions making sure what you get is as good as it gets. Particularly without compatibility issues.

For the "exclusivity" of one device per one major purpose, I rather talk about alternatives. You make a choice. It is a waste of money to have multiple devices doing the same thing. Like, having a solid standard purpose refrigerator and then having a refrigerator that works also as a toaster. There must be a tradeoff to lack of focus. On the other hand, I am not much a gadgeteer. This is where minimalism should do the work.

EDIT:

For the global ecological thinking, it is most praiseworthy, but come on, should a home PC user worry about that, unless taking care of own health, to avoid dwelling in too much of an electro-smog, narrowed down to the closest space of living? I mean, together we could make a difference, but ultimately, I think there are bigger concerns than one PC eating up this extra bit of power. Unless the bills, because, that is an argument.

PS.

I have not been a gaming console user, at least thusfar, but I do think the PC is a flawed way for gaming.
Title: Re: Tips for buying hardware?
Post by: TheDead on August 23, 2019, 07:54:05 AM
I have not been a gaming console user, at least thusfar, but I do think the PC is a flawed way for gaming.

Well, it's like finding the perfect anwser or something (perfect cake?... nom nom ;) ).
Depends on the use, the type of game, etc.
Even if available on consoles, some games are just better with a keyboard and mouse.
I maybe talking out of my ass but I think "serious gamers" will always go the PC way, and their wallets too.
Casual gamers (no, not the Solitaire grannies) will choose a console because it's just less trouble and less expensive.
Title: Re: Tips for buying hardware?
Post by: MS on August 23, 2019, 12:55:24 PM
@TheDead, you are probably right, but being serious about anything - even about the usage of Windows in some circumstances - takes a decision to make, to become committed. Consoles are standardized, have targeted infrastructure, they simply just work in the most practical sense, because they are entirely meant to do one thing complex and do it as best as they can be made to.

With the PC, the common compatibility issues and related dissonances - it is actually something that Microsoft needs to be thanked for, which is, giving us the Rome of the PC realm - as well as the constant upgrade pressure, simply spoils the experience and may actually become a well of frustration.

Who in here does not know this feeling when you see your PC falls behind the contemporary big gaming scene requirements so much you are basically out of the loop, forcing you to become a second grade consumer, seeking out replacements, rather than things of choice?

Then comes the ideology: it is good, because it made me realize - and so on. No, it made you fall out of the loop. Your decision made you realize - a decision not to catch up.

Somehow, it is kind of paradoxical that gaming consoles have become so successful. This means something. This means that people who want entertainment, do not want to deal with the PC and least of all, the commandline.
Title: Re: Tips for buying hardware?
Post by: The Repairman on August 24, 2019, 07:41:24 PM
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Title: Re: Tips for buying hardware?
Post by: MS on August 24, 2019, 08:53:31 PM
The best tip when buying hardware is researching the hardware you are considering buying and making sure it's compatible with the system you are going to install it in and is compatible with the OS.
Very true. It is good to know what one is buying the hardware for. It makes things a lot easier. Especially for people who may unnecessarily be tech savvy or may have some knowledge outdated - in the modern tech, it could happen fast. Perhaps simply to seek out the listed requirements, if the thing is a particular - or peculiar - piece of software and maybe ask someone from the consumer help, where the purchase is being done. It is always a solid thing to work with if to give specific parameters for the machine desired to achieve.

Facing it, otherwise it is a lottery. Even if the required specs are low, it is good to make sure for compatibility.
Title: Re: Tips for buying hardware?
Post by: m654321 on August 25, 2019, 06:52:17 AM
@TheDead I mean, together we could make a difference
Yes, that's the only way progress on the environment will happen - us all collectively working together. The environment (pollution, habitat loss, climate change & energy consumption) has to be the biggest issue for the planet - well done Greta Thunberg for raising global awareness!

Quote
but ultimately, I think there are bigger concerns than one PC eating up this extra bit of power
... but it's a question of scale, is it not? By that I mean if everyone on the planet, who has a "PC eating up this extra bit of power", that means a lot of extra power when scaled-up, planet-wise. It's a sobering thought that computing alone makes up 10% of the total energy consumption on the planet - that's enormous and that % will grow, as more and more societies on the globe become increasingly digital. To work together, we need to think globally - you & me. Also, inbuilt obsolesence by Microsoft of hardware running Windows OS should be made illegal - it generates environmental pollution, plastic & electronics waste. Most of the population don't know that the slow PCs they chuck out can be resurrected with Linux ...  You and I do but we only represent 3% of the PC user population. 

I'll get off my soapbox now  :-[ 
I just feel very strongly about the throw-away society we live in and the issues that are raised as a consequence of that, but its also linked to choices about buying shiny new or reusing old when it comes to computers ...
Title: Re: Tips for buying hardware?
Post by: MS on August 26, 2019, 12:42:29 AM
Primo, this:
'@TheDead (...) I mean, together we could make a difference'
or this:
'@TheDead
I mean, together we could make a difference'


Other primo: ecology is important, but so is balance. Balance of the mind, balance of the wallet, balance in the push towards optimization. Hyperoptimisation leads to issues comparable to underperformance. Going too far any direction could be detrimental. We are what we are. We are not even a planetary civilization yet, but struggle in that direction. Real global concerns could be dealt with no sooner than we become a global civilization. Otherwise, it is part time solution, which means, the best we can do, is to keep our backyard tidy.

Back on the more mainline subject:

When it comes to buying a new PC, I assume nobody from among the casual consumers, buys anything to dry run a bare bones operating system. Everybody buys a PC with a goal in mind, which is, to run a particular piece of software. Therefore, the PC must be matched to handle given piece of software, which in my opinion is the way to go. Which is why, if someone expects to be a gamer and then buys a consumer grade machine, there could be a dissonance. Likewise, if someone expects a friendly world of ready solutions and chooses Linux or BSD, there could be a dissonance. Consumer grade laptops aim at the usage of Internet browser with statistically most popular services in mind, from what I understand. Basically, any preinstalled software on given machine should be available to execute in high-quality with acceptable outcome. Which is why, for example, AMD was adding a free DOOM [2016] copy once as a bonus, if someone bought their newest - by then - R9 graphical accelerator. It is intuitive the rest of the machine should also play along the chosen standard.

Compared to the PC gaming world, the gaming consoles make for a lot less of electro-trash effectively, with the upgrade pressure being lower and one generation of gaming consoles lasting a good handful of years. Besides, in case of gaming consoles, it is guaranteed every piece of software presented as available, should indeed be available to simply have a go, while in the PC gaming world, it is highly not as simple as that, with some compatibility issues included, but even if to assume everything to be stable, the continuum of requirements is a great motor for the upgrade pressure. Understandably, this corresponds with either the presence or lack of user frustration. While it is true that in the end of lifetime phase for given generation of gaming consoles, the new games look far inferior compared to their PC versions potential, eventually things even out - with patience - as thanks to the retro-compatibility, new gaming consoles can play older games in better standard.

But I praise what I know not, speaking of the gaming consoles, so it is theory. But I know PC gaming no luck.

For choosing Linux as a default operating system, I think Linux is a great movement, but Linux as a system, has a problem. Namely, it is pathologically being itself.
Title: Re: Tips for buying hardware?
Post by: MS on August 27, 2019, 09:30:54 AM
Having spoken of cars, there is a peculiar rule I would apply if wanting to purchase a new machine, in particular if to talk about non-sports cars. That is the rule of "0.07". In order to apply, simply divide the horsepower by the mass of the car ready to drive - expressed in kilograms - increased by about one hundred extra of margin. If the result is below "0.07", the car is likely not to have sufficient drive dynamics.

EDIT:

Having spoken of infrastructure, I thought, what is the synonym for that word, what does it mean? It is connectivity. Interestingly, we could talk about "brain infrastructire", the measure of ability to associate.

PS.

Such as, one could say: "this enterprise has impressive connectivity" - or - "you have good Internet infrastructure here". Unnecessarily though these match exactly.

And I say, yes, research of infrastructure does matter when choosing hardware to buy. If someone buys a PC for gaming, specs alone matter little in case there are severe disadvantages unrelated to bare metal.
Title: Re: Tips for buying hardware?
Post by: TheDead on August 28, 2019, 08:58:42 AM
For PC:
For gaming, I always suggest used hardware because for most of my friends (no, not the "professionals").
But they are hurdles, for example nVidia blocks using cheap mining GPU, but works when you know how.
See Linus here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TY4s35uULg4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TY4s35uULg4)

Speaking about cars. I find it sad that they have not developped an Hydrogen system yet.
With all the water on earth and infinite sunlight (to do the electolysis) you have the all the fuel needed, ever.
Burning hydrogen results in heat and water... polution 99% solved.They says hydrogen can exploded, blah blah, like using dead dinosaurs juice is the only way to go ;)Pretty sure they could find a way will all the brain power available.

Title: Re: Tips for buying hardware?
Post by: MS on August 28, 2019, 09:44:17 AM
Thing to consider: automatic gearbox effectively makes for a loss of up to fifteen units of horsepower, but if someone can afford a car with an automatic gearbox, they can probably also afford a version with enhanced engine, unless the model comes at narrow array of options. Another thing to consider, active air conditioning does affect the car dynamics, therefore, in case of horsepower shortage, it may come in handy to temporarily disable the air conditioning in case of overtaking.
Title: Re: Tips for buying hardware?
Post by: MS on September 29, 2019, 02:02:06 AM
Lately I thought that I could use some extra RAM and it came out it is feasible with the laptop I have to expand with a built-in module. Even though few people would probably choose to upgrade their laptop, though if someone is fairly satisfied with what they have and does not plan to switch an entire set anytime soon, upgrading the RAM could be an option to gain some speed. Which is why, when buying a laptop, it is good to check on how much RAM slots does it have, as well as how much total RAM capacity can it support.

I saw the SSD is also upgradable, but this could mean having to replace the default module, instead of adding to it, which is rather unprofitable if everything works as promised.

EDIT:

Saw this movie, quite useful. Someone in the comment section points out the first thing to do after accessing the bowels is to disconnect the battery. The guy in the video mentions that dual channel RAM could enhance certain behaviours of the processor, even if it is 2*4GB instead of 1*8GB. If to look forward to upgrade, though, 1*8GB is a better option, since 2*4GB may fit for a complete replacement, depending on expectations.

https://youtu.be/Spldop-OLtY

PS. But actually, it should be possible to buy a more moderate laptop next time and simply boost it with the older RAM, if that makes it for the better.

If done too early, it could bust your warranty though, in case it applies.
Title: Re: Tips for buying hardware?
Post by: TheDead on September 29, 2019, 11:20:35 AM
Opening a laptop can be quite an adventure.
If there is no upgrade ports under said laptop, I would NOT recommend a "normal" user doing this, at all.
I spent 2+ hours one time to open (well dissasemble...) an HP laptop just to clean the fans and I open laptops frequently.
Other laptops, you have to remove frame, keyboard, etc. just to add memory. Some laptop conceptual engineers should be fired sometimes. :-/
Title: Re: Tips for buying hardware?
Post by: MS on September 29, 2019, 04:23:12 PM
Opening a laptop can be quite an adventure.
If there is no upgrade ports under said laptop, I would NOT recommend a "normal" user doing this, at all.
I spent 2+ hours one time to open (well dissasemble...) an HP laptop just to clean the fans and I open laptops frequently.
Other laptops, you have to remove frame, keyboard, etc. just to add memory. Some laptop conceptual engineers should be fired sometimes. :-/

There must be a reason to it. My guess is that statistically, laptops are perhaps upgraded marginally compared to the desktops, as well as stereotypical laptop users are less techy involved, compared to the desktop users. Which is why, for the costs of manufacturing complex parts, as well as making a design to enable easy upgrading, it was discarded. I do not even know really if there are any laptops nowadays having any easy upgrade access ports. Similar as with cars. Mind majority of modern cars resemble a ball more than a rectangle. This comes due to interior ergonomics calculations, meaning, it is easier to build a smaller car that can contain more, this way, using less materials at the same time. Optimization.

EDIT:

When it comes to the warranty, it is good to respect it. My 'Inspiron 15-5567' was at the warranty service two times before it could be considered good to go. They replaced the fan and then the motherboard. Think if I had to pay for it myself. Some could argue this is the reason to choose the used equipment instead. Well, used equipment is not equally good to everyone, depends on how much does one know what one is actually buying and what are the possible quirks, which could emerge time soon in the future, specific to the hardware.
Title: Re: Tips for buying hardware?
Post by: MS on October 05, 2019, 08:11:34 AM
Speaking of the second warranty service, it was particularly hard to negotiate for, since BIOS scan did not detect any malfunction - while my claim was that the memory card slot had been unresponsive. In the end, they agreed to accept the machine for yet another service and it came out, I was right. It took them to replace the motherboard, as probably it was the most swift solution, without having to dig too much into the problem. The lesson coming from this experience is to manually test the machine in every available direction, since automated scans may simply fail to notice, being brief and overly shallow. Which is also why the less the components altogether, the less the hassle.