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LL 4.0 PCs are not joining Windows Workgroup

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LL 4.0 PCs are not joining Windows Workgroup
« on: August 12, 2018, 08:16:50 PM »
 

Peejay

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I have started upgrading my machines to Linux Lite v4.0. My first was an ageing Core2Duo laptop and when I first installed I found I could access my 3.8 PCs and the USB drive attached to the router in the usual way. Today that seems to have stopped, though I can access networked devices using the IP address.Today I upgraded my desktop machine and this is when I noticed the problems. Some of them were of my own making - not following the manual properly I'm afraid - but I now have it that my shares open properly with the correct credentials. But the strange thing is that I cannot access anything through the Windows Network route: "Failed to retrieve share list from server: No such file or directory" comes up when I 'Browse Network' in the File Manager, though the shares in both LL 4.0 machines appear and can be reached. My Core2Duo laptop now exhibits the same behaviour.
I also have a more modern Acer Aspire laptop which is still on 3.8. When I run the Network command in File Manager it shows all 3 computers and the Router USB shares as well as Windows Network, but the Windows Network consists only of itself and the router. A separate Linkstation NAS does not appear on any lists but like all other  devices it can be opened via its IP address.
I can't help feeling that with the NAS also involved this points to a problem elsewhere than with LL 4.0 but it only started when I installed Linux Lite 4.0 on my main machine today.
I struggle to follow the mechanics of Samba shares at the best of times so any pointers to a remedy will be gratefully received.
Lite Phil

"The ideal is the enemy of the good."

Linux Lite also installed on 8Gb desktop, Samsung N145 Netbook (2Gb) and Philips Freevents Core2Duo (2Gb) laptop for personal use and 3 Dells and 2 Acers for others
 


Re: LL 4.0 PCs are not joining Windows Workgroup
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2018, 01:36:40 PM »
 

trinidad

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Are you using open media vault by any chance?

TC
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Re: LL 4.0 PCs are not joining Windows Workgroup
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2018, 03:07:13 PM »
 

Peejay

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Not to my knowledge! The Linkstation NAS is a Buffalo of about 14/15 years vintage. I think it's running some form of Linux, probably of their own devising, but it's not been updated for years and has previously worked without problem as part of a workgroup. I haven't had it on for a month or so because of some power outages here.
Your reply got me thinking about other commonalities and the 2 LL 4.0 devices also both sport SSDs, but that seems an unlikely cause, doesn't it?
I'm not sure how the Workgroup lists are compiled but presumably a server on each machine compiles its own list? And presumably a NAS would have the same type of program too? I can't see why there should be a connection between the latest L Lite and an ancient NAS system though. Have I got this right in principle and if so could I check on whether the server that compiles the list is running?
Thank you for your help with this.
Lite Phil

"The ideal is the enemy of the good."

Linux Lite also installed on 8Gb desktop, Samsung N145 Netbook (2Gb) and Philips Freevents Core2Duo (2Gb) laptop for personal use and 3 Dells and 2 Acers for others
 

Re: LL 4.0 PCs are not joining Windows Workgroup
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2018, 01:29:03 AM »
 

ralphy

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I struggle to follow the mechanics of Samba shares at the best of times so any pointers to a remedy will be gratefully received.


To get back the Workgroup listing under Browse Network => Windows Network:


1- Edit smb.conf


Code: [Select]
gksu leafpad /etc/samba/smb.conf

2- Set the client max protocol back to NT1 under [global] smb.conf settings:


client max protocol = NT1


3- Save changes and restart the computer. Note: Restart Linux Lite, restarting smbd and nmbd services is not enough.
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Re: LL 4.0 PCs are not joining Windows Workgroup
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2018, 09:46:32 AM »
 

trinidad

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Run this command first to see your configuration: testparm -v | grep protocol 
Hit enter when prompted to view.

TC
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Re: LL 4.0 PCs are not joining Windows Workgroup
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2018, 07:31:58 PM »
 

Peejay

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@ralphy, @trinidad Thank you both for your prompt replies. I've been a bit tied up today but will get on to what you suggest asap tomorrow.
Lite Phil

"The ideal is the enemy of the good."

Linux Lite also installed on 8Gb desktop, Samsung N145 Netbook (2Gb) and Philips Freevents Core2Duo (2Gb) laptop for personal use and 3 Dells and 2 Acers for others
 

Re: LL 4.0 PCs are not joining Windows Workgroup
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2018, 05:50:22 AM »
 

Peejay

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I have now processed the commands you have proposed @ralphy and @trinidad with interesting results but not yet a complete solution.
The 'testparm' command gave similar results in both LL4.0 and LL3.8 except that in LL3.8 there were additional lines of report:
max protocol = SMB3
protocol = SMB3
min protocol = LANMAN1
In LL4.0 there were just server max protocol and server min protocol entries (apart from the client entries, that is, which were identical) and these were identical to the LL3.8 report lines for those entries.
After editing the smb.conf file as @ralphy proposed, both systems reported client max protocol = NT1
Much as you might expect!
The interesting result though was that applying this change in LL3.8 resulted in the server correctly identifying all the Workgroup shares on the network, including the two LL4.0 machines and the ancient Linkstation NAS. So that part is a good result. :D
Unfortunately the changes made no difference to the output for 'Browse network' on the LL4.0 machines (which don't seem to see the Workgroup, never mind any shares).

Interestingly I ran Astro file manager on my android 8.0 phone and it comprehensively identified all the Workgroup shares on the network and enabled me to copy some files on to shares. So presumably there can't be much wrong with any of the machines.

Although pleased that LL3.8 is now coping with LL4.0 shares it is of course not exactly encouraging an upgrade to the latest version of Linux Lite so if any further ideas could be developed I'd appreciate that. For practical purposes though I have fixed the IP addresses of the servers and created shortcuts in File Manager so navigating the network is OK, just not as it really should be.
I have made 2 files from the terminal dialogs on LL4.0 and LL3.8 and attach these for reference if required.
Thanks you once again for your input which I appreciate and has helped me get halfway there at least. Lol.
Lite Phil

"The ideal is the enemy of the good."

Linux Lite also installed on 8Gb desktop, Samsung N145 Netbook (2Gb) and Philips Freevents Core2Duo (2Gb) laptop for personal use and 3 Dells and 2 Acers for others
 

Re: LL 4.0 PCs are not joining Windows Workgroup
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2018, 10:24:23 AM »
 

trinidad

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See these links to understand what is happening with Samba & Thunar.

https://askubuntu.com/questions/919967/how-to-tell-gigolo-gvfs-to-use-smbv2-for-windows-shares
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=881353

It seems to basically be an either/or situation for Thunar functionality. 

TC

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Re: LL 4.0 PCs are not joining Windows Workgroup
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2018, 12:57:11 PM »
 

Peejay

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@trinidad Thank you for those links - they've got me deeper into the OS than I think I've ever been before!If I understand the debian bugs link they think they've fixed it:>
> So for network shares to work out of the box I think this needs to be fixed, ideally in a way > that makes libsmbclient work without the need for /etc/samba/smb.conf (samba-common). This is fixed in 4.7 by commit 1199907cbe2f003a7df6f56e6cf3878d0732344d and is in Debian testing. We won't do this for stretch as this is not a stability or security fix. >

Well, according to Synaptic I have libsmbclient 2:4.7.6 installed in Linux Lite 4.0 but there's no sign of it identifying a samba workgroup. I don't know if the version where the bug is dealt with has actually been fully released as yet but the numbers suggest it has and if so it doesn't look to me as though the fix is working.
I re-edited the LL4.0 smb.conf files to client max protocol = SMB3. This recreated the situation where the 2 LL4.0 machines could see each other but no Windows Network or Workgroup and the 3.8 machine could see only itself in the Windows Network workgroup.

I then re-edited the LL3.8 to remove reference to the client max protocol altogether, taking it back to the installed version for [global]. As if by magic the whole Windows Network Workgroup appeared, including LL4.0 machines and the ancient Linkstation.
In the meantime I had created shortcuts in Thunar to the fixed network addresses I'd set for all the devices, so all the direct connections appeared when I browsed the network too!

If I upgrade my 3rd machine to Linux Lite 4.0 then I look likely to lose sight of the Workgroup as an entity altogether but by creating shortcuts to network addresses I shan't lose any connectivity.

So in a way the query is Solved though it would be more correct to call it Understood. It looks to me as though the bug in libsmbclient still needs to be addressed if Thunar is going to continue to be relevant for Windows Networks in the SMB3 world but I am happy to be corrected if I have the wrong end of the stick (not at all unheard of for me).

I'd value a further response about this possible bug or not before marking the query as 'solved' but it certainly looks as though we've gone as far as we can with it and I am grateful to @trinidad and @ralphy for demystifying it for me - well to the limits of my comprehension at least!

Lite Phil

"The ideal is the enemy of the good."

Linux Lite also installed on 8Gb desktop, Samsung N145 Netbook (2Gb) and Philips Freevents Core2Duo (2Gb) laptop for personal use and 3 Dells and 2 Acers for others
 


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Linux Lite 4.0 Final has been released. See the Release Announcements Section.