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My problems with Linux Lite so far, a brief summary of problems Linux Lite has.

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boooney222

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As a recent converted windows user, I can clearly confirm your targeted at windows user comment to be dead on. Between lite tasks, control center, and lite software I'm absolutely sold. Bleachbit, terminal, etc can just be terrifying to me. Them manual seems perfect to me and have never been to a github.
 

 

Jerry

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The Linux Lite Manual will not change

I never intended to change the format of the manual, I'm rewriting it in gitbook (using markdown) simply because it's much easier for me, but the manual in some sections does need revision.

Understood, cheers.

Quote from: AdrianKoshka
Quote
My first thought is that this matter should be discussed at the developer level since with all due respect, Joe User does not programme or understand development structures and the details therein.

Also, please don't talk down to the community, even though this is posted in the developer sub-section of the forums, anyone is free to voice their opinion.

This is not talking down to the community, this being respectfully truthful. It does however seem that your initial post did offend some people, but struck a chord with others.
 

 

AdrianKoshka

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Quote
The Linux Lite Manual will not change

I never intended to change the format of the manual, I'm rewriting it in gitbook (using markdown) simply because it's much easier for me, but the manual in some sections does need revision.

Quote
My first thought is that this matter should be discussed at the developer level since with all due respect, Joe User does not programme or understand development structures and the details therein.

Also, please don't talk down to the community, even though this is posted in the developer sub-section of the forums, anyone is free to voice their opinion.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2016, 11:06:13 AM by AdrianKoshka »
 

 

banko

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Hi Jerry.

I guess I'm one of the ones LL isn't aimed at ;)
The only time I have used windows,in the last few years, was when I bought this lap-top off gumtree and it had Win 7 installed.
I tried it for a while to see if I was missing anything and guess what, I didn't.
Like most I did my share of distro hopping and I settled on Peppermint, staring with Peppermint ICE.
Then I tried LL and it was like coming home.
The forum (community) is friendly.
We have all the suggestion threads.
Its rock solid and with the xfce DE I can set it up just as I like.
So I have 100% trust in Jerry and the crew and I just want a distro that allows me not to worry about too much compiling :)

Keith :)
 

 

nomko

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I'm not concerned with popularity on ranking charts and reviews

Jerry, isn't this the best attitude to develop a Linux distro? Go for this attitude and you will be successful!

No stress about rankings/reviews, no panic attacks about rankings/reviews, no bad decisions to be taken due to all those stress and panic and walking on eggs, just go your own way.
My laptop:
MSI GE70-2PE*Quad core Intel Core i7-4710HQ*Kingston 16 GB RAM*Intel 4th Gen. Integr. GPU/NVidia GeForce GTX860M*Qualcomm Atheros Killer E2200/Intel Wireless 3160

I don't need Google, my wife knows everything!

My Linux website
 

 

Jerry

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There are two perspectives here. One from the developers, and one from the users.

Was this the best place to have this thread and discussion? My first thought is that this matter should be discussed at the developer level since with all due respect, Joe User does not programme or understand development structures and the details therein. My second thought is that there is an opportunity to have community input, something I have always encouraged with this distribution.

Development and Standards - I understand at the developer level, programmers and development teams are used to working within these parameters. Linux Lite started off with one person and one mission - to win over Windows folks, nothing has changed. In the beginning, the focus was on getting easy to use software out to these people right from day one. As I was doing most of the work myself in the early days, development had to fit in with a full time job, and other out of work activities. It still does. I adopted GPL2 as our preferred license, and shared source code. Code was written quickly, tested, then released. I have always been aware of the complete development process but simply didn't have the time to do it.

In order for a distribution to appeal to more people is has to have a good set of intuitive software. Every program must be developed for Linux Lite with the assumption that your 70 grandma with little to no computing experience, could use it. As a distribution grows, more development tends to follow. As your software evolves, you increase the likelihood of developers wanting to come and work on it. This the stage we're at now.

Let me be clear about my focus. It's purely on Windows users, not existing linux users. I'm not concerned with popularity on ranking charts and reviews from people who don't understand our focus and therefore judge the distribution against existing distributions.

At the end of the day all decisions begin and end with me. It's not a responsibility I take lightly.

I have experienced a lot of arrogance and elitism within the programming community. That's why this Ethos exists - https://www.linuxliteos.com/development.html#contribute I'm happy to have people help with LL, but the 'my way is the only way' attitude won't work here.

What's the future of development in LL. How to we proceed?

In the last few months, I introduced adverts to the Linux Lite website and Forums. I've never been a big fan of ads. I decided it was a 'necessary evil' to ensure that as ad revenue increases over time, I can drop more work days and stay at home and devote more time to Linux Lite. This reality is a few years off yet. At the moment I have 2 days off from work a week, and to be honest, I don't want to spend all that time in front of a pc. I'd like to live my life.

The Linux Lite Manual will not change, we cannot ignore the positive feedback we've had from people and simply abandon the current format. Developers may have better ideas about it, but it's our focus group that I pay attention to.
I'm not going to respond to the OP's points one by one because it's better for me to spend my time responding to this thread with a clear, overall reason why things are the way they are.

I would like to thank AdrianKoshka for taking the time to construct his post, and for wanting to help the project.

Linux Lite at the development level will improve, Github is an incredible resource and I will certainly look at using more of it's resources to streamline development, but it won't be at the pace people expect.

If you like what we do, if you're passionate about converting our target audience, keep coding. The backend will come together over time. For now, focus on the users rather than development semantics.

Thank you to all those who have contributed to this thread. :)
 

 

AdrianKoshka

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I couldn't have said it better myself!
 

 

LL-user

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Great discussion/ dialog so far! Thanks, Adrian, for kicking it off. And thanks to the LL community & developers to show once more how mature and open minded you are. It's a huge pleasure to be part of it.

In my understanding Adrian did hardly say anything about the result, Linux Lite as a distribution itself. It was all about the processes and procedures in the background. So, good on him pointing out areas where energy can be saved, collaboration & synergy can be nourished, efficiency & effectiveness can be increased. It won't necessarily make a big difference directly and short term for the end user (except the manual having a search functionality included :) ), but in the long run will enable the development to be even more successful. And therefore will ultimately also have huge benefits for the users of Linux Lite. :)

One of my mottoes: There is always room for improvement :)
Great, people pointing it out. Even better, open minded people taking it on board.
 

 

newtusmaximus

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 :)   Ah the impetuousness of youth.  Wish I could remember back that far :(
« Last Edit: April 12, 2016, 07:09:12 PM by newtusmaximus »
2006 - HP DC7700p ultraslim Desktop Intel 6300 cpu  4GB Ram LL3.8 64bit.
2007 - Fujitsu Siemens V3405 Laptop  2 GB Ram LL3.6 32bit. Now 32bit Debian 9 + nonfree.
2006 - Fujitsu Siemens Si1520 Laptop Intel T720 cpu 3GB Ram   LL5.6 64 Bit
2003 - RETIRED Toshiba Satellite Pro A10 1 GB RAM LL2.8 32bit
 

 

AdrianKoshka

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Welcome @AdrianKoshka
All the things you pointed are true.
@everyone this is not an atack but think of it as a contribution
And by my opinion a good one. Contributions are not just coding and dondations. It's about a dialogue, collaboration and exchange.
Pointing out things that can be better helps further development.

This is exactly what I had in mind when I made this post. Thanks for the comment.
 

 

rokytnji

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Busy helping my distro team.

Grinning as I read this thread.
LL 3.6,2.8
Dell XT2 > Touchscreen Laptop
Dell 755 > Desktop
Acer 150 > Desktop
I am who I am. Your approval is not needed.
 

 

AdrianKoshka

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First off, I would like to thank you for your contributions so far, and welcome you to the forum. I think you should hang around, and see more of the development process, (Take in the whole picture), before passing judgement.  The development team, and the members of this community have put a lot of effort into making this one of the easiest Linux distributions to use for new comers.  I personally used perhaps a dozen or more distributions before finding Linux Lite, and I am very proud to be part of this community.  It is hard not to get defensive when someone "attacks" something you feel proud of.  That being said, an example usually works much better than criticism.  :)

Thanks for being so kind! I am thinking of sticking around more for sure, I wanna fix the things I've pointed out.
 

 

avj

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To clarify my previous statement, I was not trying to suggest that this was a attack.  I also think it is a contribution worth consideration.
I have not failed. Ive just found 10,000 ways that wont work. - Thomas Edison
 

 

torreydale

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I read the author's comment, and skimmed the rest of the thread.  With the exception of the "it terrifies me" comment, I appreciate the author's contribution.  The author didn't just say "LL sucks," dropped the mic, and walked away.  His criticisms were specific.  He took the time to investigate those specific points and offer suggestions.

Sounds like Linux Lite just got the benefit of someone, with skill, who's raising their hand to offer some help.  Instead of just taking from the project, it seems AdrianKoshka wants to give.  I say the project should consider entertaining that.

Want to thank me?  Click my [Thank] link.
 

 

anon222

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Welcome @AdrianKoshka
All the things you pointed are true.
@everyone this is not an atack but think of it as a contribution
And by my opinion a good one. Contributions are not just coding and dondations. It's about a dialogue, collaboration and exchange.
Pointing out things that can be better helps further development.
 

 

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