Linux Lite Forums
Development => Linux Lite Software Development => Topic started by: shaggytwodope on February 13, 2014, 04:43:57 AM
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This is paraphrased from Development/Code page (https://www.linuxliteos.com/code.html), More info on how to get involved can be found be joining us on the #linuxlite channel on Freenode IRC, or contacting here (https://www.linuxliteos.com/contact.html).
This is a very exciting time in Linux Lite development. We are in the process of producing custom, free software for Linux Lite. Our philosophy is minimal code, minimal design and minimal dependency. Our applications should be clean, fast and simple. Intelligent, well thought out design with great attention to detail. We use the GPL v2.
Ethos
Our target audience are Windows users. We want to show people that a linux based operating system can:
- Be simple to use.
- Look good.
Following qualities and abilities we are looking for:
- People who are open minded.
- You desire to share knowledge with others.
- You think in terms of how software will benefit others.
- You don't let your own personal tastes influence your design and feature work.
- Have the ability to visualise in your head the end product and how users will interact with our software.
- Passionate about winning over Windows users to linux.
Can work as part of a team.
- Can code in either: python, bash, zenity. Other languages are welcome (just no java)
- You should already have some code and or software that we can look at.
Please don't volunteer if you:
- Are egotistical.
- Have an elitist attitude or mindset.
- Consider only how to benefit yourself.
- Believe that your way is the only way.
- Can't take constructive criticism.
The majority of the tools we aim to create simply aim to improve a new users experience, be it something as simple as a configuration setting that can vastly improve things. Or a graphical tool to install software. Nothing is silly and would be ignored. We are a friendly group of people with the single goal of offering a "Lite" Linux distro, and ease of use. Please feel free to contact Valtam (Our Humble Creator and Project Leader), or any moderators here with ideas or questions. And it will be forwarded accordingly.
Please note this post is not intended as a suggestion or feature request thread, feature and bug requests can be found here (https://www.linuxliteos.com/bugs) respectively.
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Our target audience are Windows users. We want to show people that a linux based operating system can:
1. Be simple to use.
2. Look good....
Don't forget Mac PPC users who do not want spend big bucks on a new Mac computer. Fortunately, I had an old Intel PC to install Linux Lite. Even if I did not have it, buying a used or inexpensive PC would be a better option than spending the money for another Mac. Apple burned me once. I won't take another bite of of the Apple.
Linux Lite has definitely been simple to use with help and looks good! 8)
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Hello!
If you folks need something tested on a wide variety of equipment, including older laptops, I can help...
73 DE N4RPS
Rob
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Our target audience are Windows users. We want to show people that a linux based operating system can:
1. Be simple to use.
Unfortunately, this is where it will fail. If you want to target Windows users you need to learn about those users. Not look at Windows and emulate it, but learn what it's users actually want / need from an OS and why they 'think' that they have no other choice.
Basic LL functions are 'simple to use'. But, step sideways in any direction and it's like stepping back 20 years.
I'm sorry to be critical, but Windows users will not be comfortable with leaving a world of search and click to that of DOS like screens and copy & pasting code. (What is a Terminal anyway?). They will stick with what know because it is 'very simple to use'.
There are some aspects of LL that are great. I really love the Synaptic Package Manager (what a strange name), but I can't use it because the only way that I can get a signal from my Wifi is to strap it to the bottom of my Lappy. Why?..... I don't know. And neither does any one on here!
That could bring me on to the subject of support. But, I'm not going there.... I'm going back to Microsoft instead. Because it works!
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I made the mistake of abandoning Linux for Mac after a short try several years ago. I was scared away by the dreaded Terminal and updating and installing programs using Synaptic using a dial up internet connection. I am back to stay with Linux this time. Software Centers are a big improvement over Synaptic for new Linux users.
I have never used a command line on my Mac and cannot remember ever using a command line on Windows PC. I am getting a little more comfortable with using command lines on the Terminal but think being able to use Linux without use of the Terminal would go a long way in winning over new Linux users from Windows and Mac OS.
Maybe a goal for Linux Lite would be to do away with the need to use the Terminal?
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Maybe a goal for Linux Lite would be to do away with the need to use the Terminal?
I think that you are right!
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We are a very young distro in the linux world with a long way to go, you have to start somewhere. I'm very pleased with the feedback (https://www.linuxliteos.com/feedback.html) we've had from new windows users coming over to linux. It suggests we are on the right track. In any project there is room for improvement, and we will continue to look for even more ways to make the transition to linux easier for people. If anyone here is unhappy with the level of support at this stage of our growth you are more than welcome to try another distro with a larger, longer established community. For the size that we are and the fact that most of the development team are either full time studying, working or have families to raise, speaks volumes to their dedication of spending 100's of hours on development in their sparse free time, and then giving it away for free.
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Hello!
Very well said, Valtam. No one Linux distro can be all things to all people. Even Windows has certain aspects that can't be handled by any other way than a command prompt.
I guess MY biggest complaint about the 'Buntus is that they upgrade them long before most of the bugs in the current versions get fixed. Six months just ISN'T enough time!
After all, XP is now 12-13 years old. It needs a 'rollup pack', like they did for 2000. You can't REALLY expect PERPETUAL support, can you?
Windows 7 CAN BE an option for current XP users. OEM copies of Windows 7 Professional can be had for around $60 or so, maybe less. Don't forget that gigabyte plus of updates you'll need to download, also.
With Windows 7, MOST XP machines will probably need more RAM and more HD space to run it. Even on PCs with 1-2 GB of RAM, Windows 7 can STILL be painfully slow. For the money, one might as well just buy a new PC with Windows 8 pre-installed. (BTW, SOME OEMs WILL install 7 instead - at a considerable premium, of course.) Additionally, Windows 7 (and 8.1) gives some of MY built-in WiFi adapters FITS! Sometimes they'll connect; sometimes not. Windows 8 also still has a long way to go in other aspects.
Trust me, folks - Valtam's scripts make things a LOT easier for the n00bs out there! I've never seen them used to this extent in other distros; I see them as LL's strongest selling point. In addition to LL's Software Center, one can always install Lubuntu Software Center or Ubuntu Software Center.
Having installed LL on several different machines made by different companies, I have found quirks in LL (and other distros as well) that are pretty much machine-specific. With the development team being unable to duplicate these, I don't realistically see 'fixes' for them - which, by ME, is OK. NONE of them are anything I can't live with. If they were, I'd move on to another distro.
Some of MY problems have been the result of bad ISO downloads. The FIRST thing ANYONE should do when installing a new OS is to run a 'hash check' (MD5/SHA1; in Windoze, I use MD5Summer) to verify a proper DL of the ISO file before proceeding.
For those with driver problems, I have suggested using ndiswrapper and the known-to-work XP drivers. With better hardware support in the kernel these days, we don't hear nearly as much about ndiswrapper as we once did, but UIAM, it's still a valid solution for some folks with driver issues. Some of these issues I've seen here haven't been fixed in any OTHER distros, either.
To close, there are a LOT other Linux distros out there. Ask 100 people what their favorite Linux distro is. Chances are, you're liable to get 150-200 different answers. If you think LL has a bug, try some LiveCDs of other distros to see if the problem changes. If so, then perhaps you may have a case when it come to reporting a 'bug'...
73 DE N4RPS
Rob
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We are a very young distro in the linux world with a long way to go, you have to start somewhere. I'm very pleased with the feedback (https://www.linuxliteos.com/feedback.html) we've had from new windows users coming over to linux. It suggests we are on the right track. In any project there is room for improvement, and we will continue to look for even more ways to make the transition to linux easier for people. If anyone here is unhappy with the level of support at this stage of our growth you are more than welcome to try another distro with a larger, longer established community. For the size that we are and the fact that most of the development team are either full time studying, working or have families to raise, speaks volumes to their dedication of spending 100's of hours on development in their sparse free time, and then giving it away for free.
I completely agree Linux Lite is on the right track. I tried a couple of version of Ubuntu, Lubuntu and some other distros several years ago. I have no desire to try another distro.
Hopefully, my comments have not offended you, Valtam. I am very impressed and appreciative that I can get help from the creator of Linux Lite. I don't believe I could get any help from Bill Gates or Steve Jobs if he was still alive.
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Valtam
You start off by saying "We are a very young distro team in the linux world with a long way to go, you have to start somewhere."
Well maybe you should mention this fact in your sales pitch on your website. Do you think that it is fair to mislead people by I quotes like
"The goal of Linux Lite is to introduce Windows users to an intuitively simple, alternative operating system. Linux Lite is a showcase for just how easy it can be to use linux".
IT ISN'T... when you come from a background where if you want to install a driver you simply search
for it download it and it executes itself to a world of distros, repros and terminals.
I refer to the quotes on your website as a sales pitch because I didn't come here begging you for an OS. I was lead to your website by a video on YouTube. OK, you may or may not be responsible for that video, but you are resonsible for the information on your website that lead me to believe that I was about to engage in a "simpler way to use your computer" and as such I do expect a little help from you to get my lappy to a state where I can use it to gain access to the internet without strapping the Wifi to back of it just to get a signal.
I wasn't going to mention support as I myself am a mod on a Joomla based project's forum, so I know all about giving time for free, but it seems to be the way that the bigger following that a project gets the more 'self help' there is amongst users, leaving the developers more time to get on with what they do best....
My comments about leaning about the User were in fact meant to constructive and I stand by them.
Maybe this project is a little too small at this moment in time to accommodate and coax along a complete Linux newby like me. So, I'll leave you to it and Wish you Well.
Good Bye & Thank You!
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Valtam
... Do you think that it is fair to mislead people by I quotes like "The goal of Linux Lite is to introduce Windows users to an intuitively simple, alternative operating system. Linux Lite is a showcase for just how easy it can be to use linux". IT ISN'T... when you come from a background where if you want to install a driver you simply search for it download it and it executes itself to a world of distros, repros and terminals. ...
Maybe this project is a little too small at this moment in time to accommodate and coax along a complete Linux newby like me. So, I'll leave you to it and Wish you Well.
Good Bye & Thank You!
I disagree with Mr. Plot. Having tried a few other Linux distros as well as versions of Windows and Mac OS, I believe Linux Lite is by far the easiest Linux to learn. Linux is still Linux regardless of the distro so it does seem a little harder than Windows or Mac OS but the benefits of Linux is worth a little effort to learn it.
Plus with Linux Lite, help is available. I ain't leaving. 8)
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Thank you to everyone for your opinions and feedback. Lets see if we can focus on the other half of this topic now and see if anyone wants to get involved with the project.
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OK Mr Plod your a windows user... Great. Think about this or rather in another way. Have you ever tried any other OS before windows? If not, you really are missing out. If so you probably have noticed that they have a few things in common. A mouse, A menu to start from, and applications.
These to me are the basics. When I started trying different OS I first tried PCLinuxOS, and holy cow it was like I had to relearn everything on how to point and click. I started Windows the same way. Once I got the basic idea, I was able to do more. Same thing with PCLinuxOS, Ubuntu, and Linux Lite. So I think that a lot of the focus for the team of LL creators is not necessarily to create or mimic Windows, but to create a OS that is user friendly, has programs that are comparably good to use, is secure, and most important open to all or shared. Because as the human race has many times exhibited, when it comes to getting things done we can do great things once we all work together. I still have my concerns with LL but I, as many others are, am still learning.
Would I like to get involved? You bet I would. However I only have user skills and have no programming or any other skills that the team could draw from. A tester of sorts is all that I could be.
So in closing I hope that you get fed up with Windows and all that it tracks and uses etc... When you are ready you will try something else.
Thanks.
ohjrson
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Hello!
I imagine that there are a few out there who decided to move on rather than continue to work to resolve the issues they were facing. After all, NO distro is for everyone.
If someone's not happy with this OS, it's just as well that they find themselves another solution, but at LEAST give the community a chance to help you first. Toward that end, as Valtam said, lets focus on how to help this excellent OS become even better, instead...
73 DE N4RPS
Rob
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I'll be very short in my comment here. LL is the best, easiest, most comfortable distro I've used. And believe me : I've tried almost EVERY distro in existance ;) Everything just works OOTB, it's fast, it's friendly and it's beautiful. The only two things I've changed are the fonts (changed to "arial") and the wallpaper. Also I've installed LMMS and some add-ons in FireFox. For the rest this is stock LL.
Hopefully the same politics will be used in the future.
Congrats and respect with this distro. This is the distro I recommend to everyone wanting to change OS.
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Thanks Skorpp, we will never change our core values, simple, fast and free. This includes keeping the same base principle to, one application for each common task, whilst giving people the freedom to add to that :)
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I know this is quite an old thread but as a new LL user (not new to linux) I thought I should still add my thoughts.
As a Linux user (more years on Windows than Linux) I want the most simple desktop, I do not require spinning workspaces or any conky distractions etc.
I guess the most successful simple desktop is Android (growing users by the day), there is very little of a learning curve, you see what you want and tap it, tadah! it opens.
Why can linux not accomplish such as its main user screens? If Linux devs really want to encourage people to give linux a try, what better than the most simple way to get going. Something similar to the available Slingscold on Voyager os.
Things like the dreaded ¨terminal¨ really should be saved for much more in depth tasks and as a last resort for most users. In this day and age with all of the scripts available surely almost all tasks can be done by one click/tap on icons.
Primarily I feel that Linux as a whole has lost its way, getting more and more disjointed and confusing to new users as time goes by. The sheer choice of Linux OS is mind boggling to a new Linux user who simply wants to jump ship quickly (hardly encouraging).
For far too many Windows users, Linux is simply about using the terminal and issuing commands manually. It does not seem to have moved on for many years, just more eye candy added.
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To date, my toolkit familiarity has been limited to pygtk. That doesn't seem to be aligned with the WIP evident at github.com/linuxlite so I'm asking whether or not your roadmap intends gtk+ only.
I'm enthusiastic about the prospect of this
https://github.com/linuxlite/litewelcome/blob/master/usr/bin/lite-welcome
being replaced by something like this
https://github.com/shaggytwodope/manjaro-hello
because using webbrowser.open() seems preferable, compared to depending on python-webkit
(in the context of a distro which pre-installs firefox, not chromium/webkit)
The use of an embedded webkit browser, when remotely-hosted content is displayed, has always seemed to me like "throwing users to the wolves" naked, without protection(s) provided by any privacy / anti-tracking extensions the user may have installed (along with inbuilt ff SafeBrowsing + antiphish protections, if enabled). Although we trust that distro devs link to remote help pages "in good faith", apparently they neglect to consider linkrot. Additionally, and I'm not saying this is the case in Lite's implementation, user usually isn't even provided a tooltip/hint as to the destination, let alone offered a choice, an alternative means to copy/paste a target url and open with his/her preferred browser.
btw, I clicked the link provided, back in the day, within post #1
https://www.linuxliteos.com/code.html
Page Not Found
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Our target audience are Windows users. We want to show people that a linux based operating system can:
1. Be simple to use.
I really love the Synaptic Package Manager (what a strange name)
Synapses are sending signals to/from neurons in the brain, and also to make the heart beat/natural pacemaker, they can also be created to a lesser extent in a part of the heart and eyes.
In summary the eyes see Linux, the brain tells the heart it's in Love.
Love can come exclusively from the emotive centre, without logic centre input, different sets of neurons.
As you then formulated a choice this will have came from the logic centre, that loves Linux, yet the choice was to go to windows, love is a confusing thing.
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... Things like the dreaded ¨terminal¨ really should be saved for much more in depth tasks and as a last resort for most users. ...
The use of terminal commands to fix updating problems has keep me away from moving on to Manjaro. This seems to be an ongoing problem for Manjaro. I think about going to Manjaro (rolling release) every time there is a series update in Linux Lite and have to reinstall and the work going with that. The core value of "simple" keeps me with Linux Lite.