Installing Linux Lite 3.8 on eMMC flash memory

[TheDead]

Still disappointed about LL not having UEFI support  .

That's not entirely true. We even have a dedicated thread that has links to LL UEFI builds, and the community supports others in that thread.
https://www.linuxliteos.com/forums/linux-lite-software-development/uefi-build-test/


It would be more accurate to say we don't release UEFI builds as people would expect them. There is at the very least, an effort to provide something you can work with.


If I told you in the 90's I'm going to sell you a device that tracks your movements, can listen and record you wherever you go, most people would have rejected that offer, right? Fast forward to today, where there are literally millions of people using this device. You may have heard of it, it's called a mobile phone. My point is, just because a technology is 'convenient' doesn't mean you should accept it. Cheers

I only have a basic idea on how UEFI work but, could a universal "wrapper" be developepd? There is some hybrids for 32bits UEFI installs out there, maybe a legacy "loader". Anyways...



As for the Big Brother stuff, I'm not paranoid either but still put a sticker (a cool one on my cell/laptop cams. Some laugh but when when informed that there is no sure way to know if it's on or off even if the camera light is off since using independant relays... eyes widen with a clear but silent "Oh crap!". Also, why do a lot of phone apps ask for location,camera,phone information persmissions to play Cute Puppies 3. Needing internet for satellite or local apps, strange. Like sending your voice/fingerprint to a server for "better recognition" when my 80's computer could do that locally, etc. Only makes you wonder...


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Cheers!

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[pauloz]

Just saw WytWun's reply come through so I thought I'd give another update. I decided to try and install Xubuntu 18.04 given it was the only distro I've tried that managed to boot. Strangely, there was no warning message this time about having mounted partitions so the installation went straight to GParted (after selecting the "Something Else" option) and manually set up a partition on my eMMC drive and presto GRUB proudly announced that dual booting was established (in fact I'm doing this from Xubuntu).


I'm not sure whether to proclaim this has been solved because it's morphed to installing Xubuntu 18.04 on eMMC flash memory, not LL 3.8. It feels like I've traversed the state to get to the corner shop, but I've got there. It's working fine but LL does have much better features - I still might try LL on a SDHC card that justme2 has expanded upon.


Many thanks to all who have responded.

[Jerry]

Still disappointed about LL not having UEFI support  .

That's not entirely true. We even have a dedicated thread that has links to LL UEFI builds, and the community supports others in that thread.
https://www.linuxliteos.com/forums/linux-lite-software-development/uefi-build-test/

It would be more accurate to say we don't release UEFI builds as people would expect them. There is at the very least, an effort to provide something you can work with.

If I told you in the 90's I'm going to sell you a device that tracks your movements, can listen and record you wherever you go, most people would have rejected that offer, right? Fast forward to today, where there are literally millions of people using this device. You may have heard of it, it's called a mobile phone. My point is, just because a technology is 'convenient' doesn't mean you should accept it. Cheers

[WytWun]

I've tried Linux Mint's Cinnamon and Mate 18.3 (both 64 bit and based on Ubuntu 16.04) and whilst both were recognised in the BIOS, they both failed to boot.

That's quite disappointing as everything I can find indicates that Mint 18.x 64bit (of any DE flavour) should support UEFI as long as SecureBoot is disabled, though I've not tried this for myself.

Still disappointed about LL not having UEFI support  .

+1

[justme2]

I guess the only way to determine if my machine will boot off an SD card is to buy one and have a go. I'm mindful of what you said about choosing reputable manufacturers etc.

Just a reminder about my previous statement relating to booting from SD cards ... on some machines the built in card reader may not be recognised as a boot device. In that situation I've found that with legacy USB support enabled, you can boot from a SDHC card mounted in a USB SD card reader which identifies as as a mass storage device.

This is what I have used to install & boot from LL3.8 on UEFi laptop with legacy USB enabled.
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Portable-USB2-0-Memory-Card-Reader-Adaptor-for-SD-MMC-SDHC-TF-Card-UP-To-64GB-AU/152113650834?epid=684197628&hash=item236aae1c92:g:8koAAOSwnFZXUOLa

There must be a way to run LL on your machine! (I would hope)

[pauloz]

I've tried Linux Mint's Cinnamon and Mate 18.3 (both 64 bit and based on Ubuntu 16.04) and whilst both were recognised in the BIOS, they both failed to boot. Perhaps it might be a different story when LM 19.0 is released shortly as it will be based on Ubuntu 18.04, which as you say incorporates UEFI support.
Still disappointed about LL not having UEFI support  .

[WytWun]

I have used Linux Mint before and there have been good reviews concerning Ubuntu Mate 18.04, but I'll need to find out if both have UEFI support.

As far as I am aware all the *buntu 18.04 64bit ISOs should incorporate UEFI support.  I'm also pretty sure that recent Linux Mint ISOs (certainly 18.x) would have UEFI support.

I may not have to create a swap partition.

*buntu 18.04 defaults to creating a swap file on the boot drive, akin to the swap file on Windows, for new installs.  In my opinion and experience some provision for swap space is prudent; a swap file is better than no swap space at all, and on most recent hardware perfectly adequate for desktop usage.

[pauloz]

Thanks for clearing that up WytWun. I simply don't have the expertise (or patience! ) to install LL on a UEFI only system.


I guess the only way to determine if my machine will boot off an SD card is to buy one and have a go. I'm mindful of what you said about choosing reputable manufacturers etc.


As for Xubuntu, you're right; it's not as good as LL - I would have to do a lot of fiddling around to make it appear how I'd like it to be. I have used Linux Mint before and there have been good reviews concerning Ubuntu Mate 18.04, but I'll need to find out if both have UEFI support. That message I got when trying to install Xubuntu to my eMMC drive tells me it may be possible to do so because it appears (and I say that loosely) I may not have to create a swap partition.


Thank you for the time and effort you have provided - I'll still keep posting until resolved.

[WytWun]

What does Xubuntu have that LL doesn't have?

UEFI support.  It appears your machine is one of those which lack the CSM or Legacy BIOS support 

Jerry and the LL team have taken the decision that they won't be including UEFI support in LL - made clear here.

It is however possible to install LL 3.x (and probably 4.x) on a UEFI only system - I followed (more or less) m654321's tutorial and succeeded; that machine has been happily running LL since 3.6 and I was able to do the 3.8 upgrade without any issue.  I would caution though that I have been in IT a long time and have a lot of history with installing OSes (both proprietary and open source) on a wide variety of hardware so while it wasn't particularly hard for me to use the information in that thread, taking this approach is definitely not for the faint hearted, the inexperienced, or those who depend on what they currently have installed, without great care and lots of known good backups.

Regarding your query about installing to SD card: if the machine can boot off the SD card you should be able to install a UEFI supporting Linux distro to the SD card.  This will not be much different than if you were to use a USB stick as the install media.  I would suggest though that most SD cards suck at write performance (many have reasonable read performance) and you will be well advised to select good quality media as SD cards (and USB sticks) can go bad all too easily    I now only buy brand name SD cards and USB sticks from reputable local sellers, and I personally only select media with performance specifications listed on the packaging for this type of use - Sandisk and Lexar are brands I've had success with, particularly media intended for use with cameras where write speed and reliability is important.

While Xubuntu isn't as as nice as LL IMO, if you decide to try the install to an SD card it should work ok (and it has been fine on my Lenovo 32bit UEFI netbook).  Once you're comfortable with whatever Linux you can install to SD, you can then later do another install to the eMMC flash storage which will perform a lot better than any SD card.

[pauloz]

Update:

I tried out LL 4.0 Beta in the same manner as Xubuntu 18.04 but again the USB device was not recognised. I can't understand why Xubuntu 18.04 was recognised but not LL 4.0 Beta. What does Xubuntu have that LL doesn't have? I didn't plan to install - only just try out. Pretty frustrating!


Has anybody got any ideas as to why?

[pauloz]

Well done WytWun! Finally, I managed to boot Xubuntu 18.04 64bit into my very stubborn Ollee laptop from my USB stick. And more cause to celebrate, I've got sound again.
Whilst installing (albeit until LL 4.0 is available) I got this message:


The installer has detected that the following disks have mounted partitions
/dev/mmcblk3, /dev/sda
Do you want the installer to try to unmount the partitions on these disks before continuing? If you leave them mounted, you will not be able to create, delete, or resize partitions on these disks, but you may be able to install to existing partitions there.

l went into GParted and checked the status of all partitions and it states all partitions are not mounted (??), so that has me scratching my head. I'm now looking for further direction. I have other questions:


1. Rather than wait for the release of LL 4.0, is there a risk if I try to install LL 4.0 Beta?
2. Would it be better to install on the eMMC drive (assuming the install allows me) or should I try to install on the built in SD card? Etcher claims it can burn safely to SD cards but can LL 4.0 be installed permanently on a SD card?
3. Will GRUB take over the booting process in the normal manner? I just hope I don't find myself in a situation where there is no booting option for Windows.


Sorry for sounding pedantic but I'm not confident about proceeding because this installation is different to what I'm acquainted with. Thanks.

[WytWun]

tried out Xubuntu 18.04 (32 bit)

Before giving up, I'd suggest trying Xubuntu 18.04 64bit - my apologies for not making that clear.

I don't believe any of the 32bit distributions are actually built with UEFI support at all as I don't think the kernel UEFI support is there for 32bit.  All the 32bit UEFI BIOS machines are actually 64bit capable so I gathered there wasn't any interest in adding that support to the kernel once someone developed a 32bit loader that could boot a 64bit kernel.  I've read that it was only because the machines concerned were made available with 32bit Windows (mostly v8 & 8.1, some 10) preinstalled and couldn't be upgraded beyond 2GB of RAM that the 32bit UEFI was used.  If the machine came with Win10 64bit, the UEFI will be 64bit as I understand MS never supported booting 64bit Windows from 32bit UEFI - even though Linux can.

I wasn't specific but the machine I mentioned is actually running Xubuntu 64bit from a 32bit UEFI - more reading material about this whole mess is in older postings on the Linuxium blog.

A lot of the newer Win10 machines might also require that SecureBoot be disabled from within Windows, at least initially - I think I've read that MS requires this for Win10 OEM delivered preinstalled on machines by OEMs.  Ostensibly to protect the integrity of the Windows install... but I think it's there so they can get you to click on a disclaimer from within Windows.

[justme2]

If it is imperative that you maintain win10 then I understand your reluctance to put it at risk.
As for booting from the card reader, there could be problems too. I have a Lenovo which has LL3.8 installed on the HD and will boot from a USB SDHC card (F12 at powerup gives me a menu to select the boot device) but the built in card reader is not recognised as a boot device. A eeePC 901 will boot from the built in card reader so there are obviously pitfalls with some machines. If you can see some way of choosing the boot device (F12 maybe) I would be inclined to install LL to a SDHC card (class 10 for better performance) with Etcher and try it. If it doesn't work, I'm stumped!

Edit: I can boot the Lenovo from a SDHC card mounted in a USB card reader which is available in UK from Poundland stores (for £1), probably available in your $2 or $3 shops, but again you have to have the means to select the boot device at power up.

I hope you are able to overcome this problem, LL3.8 is worth the effort.

[pauloz]

Hello again. I downloaded Etcher and then tried out Xubuntu 18.04 (32 bit). Being still in Beta, I did not try LL 4.0. I burned Xubuntu to a USB 3.0 Flash Drive, which seemed to proceed smoothly, but no dice. Again, it wasn't recognised when I attempted to change boot settings.
I just think it isn't possible with this soldered on eMMC drive  . My problem is the BIOS settings are configured quite differently to what I am accustomed to. One has to dig deep to determine if Secure Boot is disabled and Legacy BIOS support is enabled.
This is what is displayed within the Security tab: Attempt Secure Boot = [Disabled]
                                                                      Secure Boot Mode = [Customized] (The other option is "Standard")
Under the Advanced tab, sub-heading USB Configuration: Legacy USB Support = [Enabled]
If I decide to purchase a 64GB SD card (which the laptop has provision for) and try Etcher again to install LL 4.0 when it's released (my preference), will I strike the same problem? I have a feeling the Recovery and EFI partitions for Windows 10 on my eMMC drive stand in the way and worse still, if I'm able to move them to the SSD using Easeus, Macrium etc the laptop will fail to boot period. 

[Mart]

Try Etcher - as recommended by this forum -

Etcher is excellent. I've had one or another issues with a number of burning applications. Etcher is so good, I use it on our Shop USB drives. Never had one failure in all the time that I have used it. A remarkable record.

 It's available for both Linux and Windows users to download.

Good luck.