Need help with dual boot Windows 10 and LL

[Colin23erk]

technomancer

Thanks for your words of encouragement

Part of the reason I abandoned trying to get Linux to work was I had a limited time to see if it would boot and work on a modern laptop before the option to return it expired . I looked on the web to see if others had tried but did not find much feedback.

The reason I was looking for a new PC  because I had spent about a month trying to sort  out a problem with a Windows Password lockout . Ended up Reinstalling Win 7 . That messed up booting to LL . Sorted the boot only to find LL would not boot - hung on loading ( container problem ? ) baffling the experts so no solution to repair mine . Needed to reload and set up linux. Then had a problem with my Keyboard - unable to enter  a password then again to verify ( not matching ).

Returning to my old netbook I have fitted a new keyboard . Found a new problem (just now) - if I  hold the netbook by its Left Hand corner  it looses power and shuts down.

Oh well back to using the screwdriver

Colin

[technomancer]

Hi
Whilst trying to find a Linux version with UEFI iso I got in contact with a Site that had a list . On the subject of the implication of you choosing to not to provide a UEFI iso  . I can understand why you are not willing to pay for Linux Lite  to be registered with  Microsoft for their licencing to enable comply with Secure Boot option .
His view on the new UEFI is that UEFI  is Intel and Secure Boot part is Microsoft . There is no reason that LL have a UEFI iso  available (with no fees) without registering with Microsoft so that can be used to Dual Boot LL with Windows 8 and 10 . All that is needed to load LL as UEFI only is to turn off  Secure Boot in the Bios settings under "Security "
On my brief study of the new UEFI bios it has not got any advantage to a home user unless the want to Boot off a 1Tb or larger HDD .
The main benefits are for large IT department administration controlling the bios remotely  . Doing things over networks and internet brings the need for added security as opens a door anyone .

Finally an update on trying to install Linux with Windows 10 ans UEFI bios I have given up because of too many problems . I managed to install linux Mint but immediately found I could not get onto the internet because of WiFi a problem . Turns out it was a Linux/ Broadcom  driver problem  . Looks like Broadcom will not allow their drivers to be included on Linux unless the get a fee ( another MS ? )  They can be downloaded but its more hassle and I would have no guarantee that my new PC would work OK  if that was done . I was able to return the PC and get a full refund .



Colin

Sorry to hear that Colin. I too was in the same position at one time.
 I understand how you feel.

I took a different approach however.
Wipe the entire HardDrive and Install LinuxMint, Run a LAN cable to my new laptop and installed WiFi drivers. From there I used VirtualBox and installed a virtual machine of Win7. (Who in their right mind would use Win 8 or 10 ? ) After all that, well Linux lite installed and I use it solely for 4 months. LinuxMint just got me "testing". Just change your BIOS to Legacy, and install, or UEFI on LinuxMint.

I know ALOT of people that i tried to convert to Linux just lose interest because of all these issues. 90% of people want to "use" the computer- not try to get it working. Understandable, thats why MAC/OSX is so popular.
Unfortunately if we want more hardware support and popularity, i believe Linux will go the way of RedHat, partnering with Microsoft and destroying any hope of freedom we have left. From what I know, Microsoft bought SUN micro and they owned 1/2 the patents on various Linux things, guess who owns them now ? LOL Microsoft runs Linux servers.......... 
(My info may not be 100% correct on that but it to the best of my recollection. I don't wanna start on a new topic of people correcting me, but please message me if you feel it necessary to.)

[gold_finger]

Grab a beer, cup of coffee, snack, or whatever and read this:  UEFI boot: how does that actually work, then?

[Colin23erk]

Hi
Whilst trying to find a Linux version with UEFI iso I got in contact with a Site that had a list . On the subject of the implication of you choosing to not to provide a UEFI iso  . I can understand why you are not willing to pay for Linux Lite  to be registered with  Microsoft for their licencing to enable comply with Secure Boot option .
His view on the new UEFI is that UEFI  is Intel and Secure Boot part is Microsoft . There is no reason that LL have a UEFI iso  available (with no fees) without registering with Microsoft so that can be used to Dual Boot LL with Windows 8 and 10 . All that is needed to load LL as UEFI only is to turn off  Secure Boot in the Bios settings under "Security "
On my brief study of the new UEFI bios it has not got any advantage to a home user unless the want to Boot off a 1Tb or larger HDD .
The main benefits are for large IT department administration controlling the bios remotely  . Doing things over networks and internet brings the need for added security as opens a door anyone .

Finally an update on trying to install Linux with Windows 10 ans UEFI bios I have given up because of too many problems . I managed to install linux Mint but immediately found I could not get onto the internet because of WiFi a problem . Turns out it was a Linux/ Broadcom  driver problem  . Looks like Broadcom will not allow their drivers to be included on Linux unless the get a fee ( another MS ? )  They can be downloaded but its more hassle and I would have no guarantee that my new PC would work OK  if that was done . I was able to return the PC and get a full refund .



Colin

[firenice03]

@Mike (m654321)
UEFI and BIOS are similar (BIOS being the predecessor) Secure Boot is the A Okay to continue...
You could Disable Secure Boot and still use UEFI - Legacy mode is where you come back to BIOS...
This is a simplified my take on it anyway

Maybe google clarifies it better??
Secure Boot prevents operating systems from booting unless they're signed by a key loaded into UEFI — out of the box, only Microsoft-signed software can boot. Microsoft mandates that PC vendors allow users to disable Secure Boot, so you can disable Secure Boot or add your own custom key to get around this limitation.

Again, a layman's take on the subject - I am in no way an expert

[m654321]

I thought Secure Boot and UEFI were the same thing...

In order to enable UEFI in my dual Windows/LL set-ups, Secure Boot is set to Enabled, BIOS mode (a.k.a Legacy mode) and Fast Boot are set to Disabled in the Boot Settings.

Cheers
Mike

[Colin23erk]

Hello
Whilst searching for Linux Distros that have UEFI IOS's I had a discussion about Linux Lite not having a UEFI version . This was his take on the situation with Microsoft.

From HIM
""MS has the authority to sign the bootloader (or more, if required) before it can pass Secure Boot. If you disabled Secure Boot, you do not need the signed bootloader. ""

My Reply
""From what you say I assume that any Linux distro can be provided with a UEFI interface instead of Bios Legacy and will work OK except for MS’s Secure Boot""

His Answer
""UEFI came from Intel, the Secure Boot concept “probably” originated from MS. A signed bootloader is required to pass the security check with the firmware .   Note that a distro must support UEFI to boot in UEFI mode. The Secure Boot feature is an additional topping.""

Sounds very much like earlier Windows had Signed-for Drivers and Software but all you got was a message that they were unsigned -- In other words its  up to me to decide to use them
Looks  as if its up to me if I want a UEFI ISO for Linux Lite that is not signed and I am prepared to take the risk all I need is suspend the Secure Boot in the bios settings .

Colin

[technomancer]

Yet another  way of doing things on this Lenovo Yoga 300


It does not matter how I change the settings in the UEFI boot  it will not Boot into the USB drive.


The only way I can boot to a USB Drive is to log out of Windows  and because of the Quick Boot feature (i assume ) I have to hold the ON button to make the PC power down
.
Then I press the hidden button to get to  the  option menu (as above) >I then select the boot menu option > find the USB drive and click on it > the PC then boots into the Linux Mint OS and hopefully LL if I find an EFI ISO to install

I had to disable "virtualization" in my BIOS in order to boot either USB or DVD. After you have installed LL and booted up, shutdown again and re-enable it so that your other OS can boot without reconfiguring.
 I had Win8 installed in UEFI and just disabled it and set to legacy, but i am not using your hardware.
 It would be a good idea to get a spare HDD, extra one, or something so you can test and not break your setup on your current drive.

-I agree with Jerry about the ethical implications of UEFI, and support him in that. But at the same time your argument is valid. So unless a large community of us Linux users get together against it, or at least work to open UEFI to all OS's- this is how it is.
Just try and have fun tinkering with LinuxLite
( maybe some of us can get together a Uefi boot disk to use for any OS that isn't licensed ! HACK ?) or is that not legal ?

[Colin23erk]

thanks for the update on the state of play with UEFI .
I was not aware of the politics behind the problem . As Linux Mint had UEFI boot I assumed it was available to everyone as the Booting of a computer is as much a part of its construction as the motherboard etc and should not be hijacked as you suggest by a Software Provider like Microsoft and then demand a licencing fee.

It's like androids having apps that cannot be uninstalled -- why.??  I bought and paid for a piece of equipment it is up to me to "Lawfully" use it  how I want to as long as I do not complain it is not working correctly during its warranty period.

Unfortunately the computer industry is full of dirty tricks and adds software to its products that are not in the interest of the consumer . Redmond seems to be a law unto it self
I have an HP printer that gives a message that the Ink cartridges are out of date and therefore the end of the printer is imminent . Fortunately I am allowed to  cancel it but only until the next time I switch it on . They must spend a lot of time and effort coming up with ways to get even more money out of us for something we do not need or want .

Colin

[m654321]

@Colin23erk...

The LL/Windows UEFI-enabled dual-boot set-up I described (in https://www.linuxliteos.com/forums/tutorials/tutorial-how-to-set-up-a-winll-dual-boot-with-uefi-fully-enabled/msg18468/#msg18468ib), based originally on Wani's youtube video, took me not more than 1 hour to set up from scratch, using a clean HDD or SSD, on an Asus G750 laptop with a 300 Mb/s broadband connection. 

As Wirezfree or Goldfinger mentioned above, as long as you know how to get into the Settings for your make/model of computer, there shouldn't be a problem. You should be able to check that online via Google.  Just print out the tutorial & follow it to the letter and I can only assume you're good to go...

I have a very basic knowledge of computers generally (no programming background or experience at all) compared to many in the LL forum, so I'm assuming if it worked for me it should work for pretty much anyone...   Like you I came to Linux from XP - for me this was in April 2014.
   
Through experimentation, I've found the UEFI dual-boot will work for Windows OS 7, 8.1 or 10 with any LL version from 2.0 onwards. I've also found it's possible to install a separate  /home partition, within the UEFI dual-boot for LL, to conserve configuration files so settings aren't lost with the LL upgrades .

Do try it.  I'm really interested to know how you get on... good luck...

Kind regards
Mike

[Wirezfree]

Completely agree, Intel's good intentions for security,
then usurped by Microsoft to lock-down hardware, and lockout other OS's



Critisism

[Jerry]

We have been very clear on our position regarding UEFI and Secure Boot, and why we are against supporting such a unethical technology. If it means fewer people try LL then it's a very small price to pay for doing the right thing ethically. This stance may change in the future, this largely depends on a number of related factors.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

[Colin23erk]

My  error


Must have missed things - I gave up when I needed to install Ubuntu and then do a convert job.
With my recent track record of things going wrong my head was spinning enough already .


I am surprised with the length of time UEFI has been in use that a EFI ISO has not been created yet for Lite .


Having the correct ISO would make it easier for Lite converts to use Lite on newer PC that boots into UEFI . It would save you and us a lot of waste time using these Forums to look and ask for solutions to known problems that can be solved centrally
 Us non computer enthusiasts who use LL rely on you experts to make Lite a real alternative to Windows XP that it wants to be .


Thanks for all the help that everyone gives me when I need it .  Not complaining just trying to cut down on your workload with unnecessary posts .
Colin

[gold_finger]

I think I have found out what the problem is with LL is thanks to your suggestion....


In the set up procedure I clicked on the Lite ISO I had downloaded instead  of the Mint ISO that had worked--when i pressed Start > all I got was a message ---


"When using UEIF target type ,only EFI bootable ISO images are Supported - Please select an EFI bootable ISO or set the Target Type to BIOS "


Looks like we need an EFI bootable ISO for Linux Lite.

I had assumed that you had actually read the tutorial by m654321 that we pointed out to you.  If you had, you would have already known that there is no UEFI capable ISO file for LL -- which is the whole reason he made the tutorial and why installing LL in that mode is so much more complicated than installing Mint.

[Colin23erk]

Yet another  way of doing things on this Lenovo Yoga 300


It does not matter how I change the settings in the UEFI boot  it will not Boot into the USB drive.


The only way I can boot to a USB Drive is to log out of Windows  and because of the Quick Boot feature (i assume ) I have to hold the ON button to make the PC power down
.
Then I press the hidden button to get to  the  option menu (as above) >I then select the boot menu option > find the USB drive and click on it > the PC then boots into the Linux Mint OS and hopefully LL if I find an EFI ISO to install