Why is zeitgeist datahub still installed?

[Jerry]

It would set a precedent for providing a script for every piece of unwanted software. People would start expecting this on all sorts of software. This is just a case of, you found something that was installed, and you got the support you needed to remove it

[technomancer]

Thank you wirez_free and gold_finger, excellent information. I had to install Gedit and used Synaptic package manager, I found zeitgeist there to be installed. After install of Gedit, I ran the commands I posted earlier, and the "purge" as well that Kirkx posted. . All better. Awesome. Thanks guys.

Just curious, can a script be written that would remove zeitgeist if it is installed, or after. Maybe an option in the software manager. Blacklisting maybe, not sure how, but that would not let me install packages that zeitgeist is"tied to". Just trying to see if there is a creative workaround without being unable to install packages that request it. Curious...........

[Kirkx]

I have just run the following commands:

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sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get purge zeitgeist zeitgeist-core zeitgeist-datahub
sudo apt-get autoremove

Running the last command resulted in removal of two more packages, including python-zeitgeist discussed before:

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libtelepathy-glib0
python-zeitgeist


[Wirezfree]

Thanks... I think you are probably right...

[gold_finger]

It's not really a dependency, but something pushed out with certain applications.

Yes, your wording of that is more correct.  In above test case, zeitgeist is definitely not needed for gedit to function properly -- so it's not a "dependency".  I'm just going to guess it's installed because of default settings for apt-get install telling it what other categories of things qualify for auto installation along with the desired package.  (Eg. There are "dependencies", "recommended packages", "suggested packages", etc.  Maybe apt-get is set to auto include all "recommended packages" and zeitgeist falls under that category for gedit.  Just guessing on this here.)

[Wirezfree]

Hi gold_finger,

Thanks for the in-depth checking/testing, appreciated...
So you could miss it being added "if" you do not check what "other things" are being added.
It's not really a dependency, but something pushed out with certain applications.

Just a thought, and may help relieve some concerns, especially for new users.
How about a "Remove Zeitgeist" option in "Lite Tweaks", one for the Dev's to ponder over I think.

Dave

[gold_finger]

Thanks for the info Wirezfree.

But I did not find anything though to suggest that installing any application that
is "Zeitgeist Aware" would actually trigger the installation of "Zeitgeist" itself..??

In Mint Xfce, they use gedit text editor instead of leafpad.  I like gedit better than leafpad myself, so a while back I went to install it on LL.  During install noticed that it was going to pull in zeitgeist, so I stopped it and didn't bother.

Just now, decided to run a simulated install command for gedit on LL -- here is result:

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bill@Gold:~$ sudo apt-get install -s gedit
[sudo] password for bill:
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
The following package was automatically installed and is no longer required:
  libcmis-0.4-4
Use 'apt-get autoremove' to remove it.
The following extra packages will be installed:
  gedit-common gir1.2-gtksource-3.0 libdee-1.0-4 libgtksourceview-3.0-1
  libgtksourceview-3.0-common libtelepathy-glib0 libzeitgeist-2.0-0
  python-gi-cairo python-zeitgeist zeitgeist zeitgeist-core zeitgeist-datahub
Suggested packages:
  gedit-plugins
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  gedit gedit-common gir1.2-gtksource-3.0 libdee-1.0-4 libgtksourceview-3.0-1
  libgtksourceview-3.0-common libtelepathy-glib0 libzeitgeist-2.0-0
  python-gi-cairo python-zeitgeist zeitgeist zeitgeist-core zeitgeist-datahub
As you can see, installing gedit will also end up installing zeitgeist itself.  So, I'd say that different packages may or may not also pull in zeitgeist and that people just need to pay attention to what installer tells them is being pulled in as a dependency.

Apparently, Mint developers designed their default systems with gedit, but stripped out zeitgeist itself.  The only two zeitgeist related packages on fresh Mint 17.1 Xfce are:

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libzeitgeist-2.0-0
python-zeitgeist
So in this example, if someone wanted gedit on LL:  install it, then remove the zeitgeist, zeitgeist-core and zeitgeist-datahub packages.  (I'd imagine one could get rid of the other two packages as well without breaking gedit functionality, but I don't know that for sure because I haven't bothered trying it myself.)

[Wirezfree]

I found the following,
but not sure if it's relevant, being "Arch" which lists some apps/items that can interact with Zetgeist datahub

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Zeitgeist

and this:
http://zeitgeist-project.com/experience/

But I did not find anything though to suggest that installing any application that
is "Zeitgeist Aware" would actually trigger the installation of "Zeitgeist" itself..??

Dave

[gold_finger]

Is there a list of known packages that use/require Zeitgeist when installing them ?

Not that I'm aware of, but someone might have made a list somewhere on the interwebs -- who knows?

I don't take what I find in other forums as fact, just putting it out there to see if it holds true, which it does not.  Hard to find a good source for information nowadays,...

Yes, it can be hard separating good from bad info, especially if dealing with relatively unfamiliar subject matter.  Get's easier to filter things over time though.  At one time or another all of us end up doing the same thing as you -- posting info that isn't accurate.  I've certainly done that myself.  Occationally I stumble on something I had posted a couple of years ago that I now know to be wrong.  I don't like the thought of me ending up being the source of misinformation, so usually I'll edit the post when I find something like that, put a correction on it in red and tell possible future readers that I was wrong originally.

[technomancer]

Excellent. I was aware that it most likely was installed as a package dependency from something I installed.(not originally on my LL install)
  Zeitgeist is mainly on Ubuntu Unity, which LL doesn't use. I was just giving suggestions on how to remove if somebody did want to.
I know Mint isn't in cahoots with canonical but profits speak louder than privacy, we will never truly know.
However I checked my LM and nothing there "enabled", so maybe terminology of "installed" and "enabled" is getting mixed up with people.
 I don't take what I find in other forums as fact, just putting it out there to see if it holds true, which it does not. Thank you for clarifying gold_finger. Hard to find a good source for information nowadays, so it is refreshing to have an awesome community here that has a "finger on the pulse" so to say.  (pun intended, LOL)
  Is there a list of known packages that use/require Zeitgeist when installing them ?
I know I can check dependencies when installing packages as a first line of defence, just wondering if an actual list exists.

Just to clarify for anyone who reads this forum post-->  LinuxLite does not come with Zeitgeist enabled.

[Scott]

To reinforce what gold_finger's saying in the previous post I did a command line search on zeitgeist that resulted in what I beleive are the following 3 core packages (let me know if I'm wrong). I'm on LL 2.2/64 and not one of those packages is installed by default:

To list all the possible zeitgeist packages use this command

Code: [Select]

apt-cache search zeitgeistHere's a partial list

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zeitgeist
    event logging framework
zeitgeist-core
    event logging framework - engine
zeitgeist-datahub
    event logging framework - passive logging daemon
Notice the line - Installed: (none) - for each package

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apt-cache policy zeitgeist
zeitgeist:
  Installed: (none)
  Candidate: 0.9.14-0ubuntu4.1
  Version table:
     0.9.14-0ubuntu4.1 0
        500 http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ trusty-updates/main amd64 Packages
     0.9.14-0ubuntu4 0
        500 http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ trusty/main amd64 Packages

scott@Lite22:~$ apt-cache policy zeitgeist-core
zeitgeist-core:
  Installed: (none)
  Candidate: 0.9.14-0ubuntu4.1
  Version table:
     0.9.14-0ubuntu4.1 0
        500 http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ trusty-updates/main amd64 Packages
     0.9.14-0ubuntu4 0
        500 http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ trusty/main amd64 Packages

scott@Lite22:~$ apt-cache policy zeitgeist-datahub
zeitgeist-datahub:
  Installed: (none)
  Candidate: 0.9.14-0ubuntu4.1
  Version table:
     0.9.14-0ubuntu4.1 0
        500 http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ trusty-updates/main amd64 Packages
     0.9.14-0ubuntu4 0
        500 http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ trusty/main amd64 Packages

[gold_finger]

Sorry technomancer, but (unfortunately) you seem to have found an unreliable source of info.

... on os builder forum-->
"Don’t be fooled, Canonical The company behind Ubuntu, this includes Mint etc. as they are now in cohoots with Ubuntu as well uses the data it collects on users, I’m sure in various forms."

That's an absolutely ridiculous statement (by the forum poster you quoted, not you technomancer).  Canonical has absolutely nothing to do with Mint.  In no way is Mint "in cohoots" with Canonical to spy on their users!

Zeitgeist is NOT installed by default on Mint, (nor is it installed on LL).  Certain applications on certain flavors of standard Mint install may bring with them library files for zeitgeist because they are capable of using zeitgeist IF one chooses to install it on their system.  Certain applications that people may install after the fact to Mint, or LL, or other Ubuntu-based distros may do the same thing and some applications may pull in zeitgeist itself for installation.  It's up to the individual user to pay attention to such things and take appropriate action for themselves if they choose to avoid such things.  Mint, LL, and others have no control over what people put on their own systems.

I myself want nothing to do with zeitgeist -- so I just avoid installing things that use it.

[technomancer]

Info-  http://wiki.zeitgeist-project.com/Getting_Started#What_is_Zeitgeist

If you want to remove it I have using this in a terminal-->  Run sudo apt-get remove zeitgeist

From Ubuntu help pages to disable/enable-->

There is an easy way described here -- which does not include deleting any package, but simply de-activating the corresponding services. I didn't try it myself, but this way side-effects should be minimal (and probably even wanted, as e.g. no "recent items" being available etc. Moreover, it is easily revertable in case of "unwanted" side effects.

The author of that article explicitly states: Here is a way to disable this logging without breaking Unity or any other part of the system, execute these commands in a terminal:

sudo mv /etc/xdg/autostart/zeitgeist-datahub.desktop /etc/xdg/autostart/zeitgeist-datahub.desktop-inactive
rm ~/.local/share/recently-used.xbel
mkdir ~/.local/share/recently-used.xbel
rm -rf ~/.local/share/zeitgeist

Reverting this (if one wants to enable Zeitgeist again) thus should be done like this:

mkdir ~/.local/share/zeitgeist
rmdir ~/.local/share/recently-used.xbel
# no action for the .xbel file, as it will be re-created automatically
sudo mv /etc/xdg/autostart/zeitgeist-datahub.desktop-inactive /etc/xdg/autostart/zeitgeist-datahub.desktop

which is simply "reversing" the steps of the DE-activation.

Remark: The ~/.local/share/recently-used.xbel has nothing to do with Zeitgeist itself, it just falls into the same category somehow. The article mentioned is about "disabling activity logging", and thus included this. If you just want to disable Zeitgeist, you can skip the two middle steps.

I'm not sure if it was installed by myself as a dependency or what.
It's gone now........... I hope that helps somebody.

"Privacy is essential and integral to Linux"


Incorrect--->So i have somewhat looked into this issue and found this on os builder forum-->
"Don’t be fooled, Canonical The company behind Ubuntu, this includes Mint etc. as they are now in cohoots with Ubuntu as well uses the data it collects on users, I’m sure in various forms. One such tragedy is to send you relevant ads and direct you to amazon etc. based on the data collected. I understand they want to make money, spying on their users is not the way to go about it."

[sysdrum]

I went through all the items and found that if I install bluefish, which makes no sense. As it never asks but when I run update after installing bluefish it shows up.

[Jerry]

Probably because its a dependency of something you've installed.