That's quite an interesting opinion -
I'm still running 2.6 -love the CC- and once I've explained a few core things about using Linux to him, my 7 yr old grandson has been quite comfy using Lite. 2.6 or 3.0, it's a blinking great OS you've given us Jerry and I must say thank you.
I think this particular list is a bit off, and I am user familiar with all the distros listed except for elementary OS.
1) I personally think that Linux Lite is the best Linux distro for new Windows converts largely because of its features, its stability, its intuitive ease of use for Windows refugees, and its excellent support, which by the way, every distro out there these days could take a lesson from. It is well conceived to be easily maintained and tweaked from the GUI, a feature which Windows converts need available as much as possible to feel comfortable.
2) I consider SolydX, (though not SolydXK) to be at least as equally stable, and just as readily intuitive for Windows clickers as Linux Lite, and with some nice feature options, and a little better Debian package versatility, but it is my second choice because of its somewhat scanty support and relatively small user base.
3) I’d put every other distro beyond these two in third place, because they all have less user friendly support, and/or sometimes too much (Internet pseudo genius’s) support (i/e Ubuntu, Linux Mint) that Windows refugees are almost certain to break things via misguided Google quests. I mean really? Just run Debian if you want to go through a useful learning curve. Trust me. Serious people, small businessmen, entrepreneurs, etc.; who currently use Windows, but are not geeks, really do not want the headache, or don’t have the time, or don’t want to spend money on tech support personnel, and even if they did, in that event they would all use, or at least seriously consider Debian, or Suse Enterprise, because they actually are not stupid, just not educated in computer programming.
Linux in general is making what inroads it’s making into the home and small office user market utterly dominated by MS, largely because of progress in a few excellent Linux applications, notably, Firefox, Libreoffice, and VLC media player, and as always because of MS security issues. These applications, much like Linux Lite itself have begun to recognize what a typical Windows user really is like, and certainly there are around two hundred million PC users of this kind. They are not geeks, but rather home net workers and small businessmen, and they are unlikely to become geeks in their lifetime, not because they are not intelligent important people, but because their successes in life are not based on their computing education. There is no place for arrogance in this market, as many of these users are time challenged, and are mainly interested in a reliable computing utility that allows the further development of their particular interests and businesses. In my opinion no other Linux distro appreciates and serves the needs of these users to a greater degree than Linux Lite.
To add a little nasty humor at this point, and probably an unpopular personal opinion: I have never understood the sense of Arch Linux. What is the point of building from scratch anything other than Debian or Slack? If it’s not at the big end, servers, hard science, etc. and it’s not going to be addressed at Windows market share, it just essentially amounts to a hobby. I wish I had that kind of time on my hands. Seems a little vain these days to me, but of course I am old.
Anyway friends, it’s probable that Windows 10 will be in use on half a billion PC’s by the end of this year, and there are probably only about two billion running PC’s in existence, and a big chunk of those not on Windows 10 will still be running on Windows 7. I’ve installed dual boot Linux Lite 2.8 and 3.0 on around a hundred Windows 10 users PC’s now, so I’m making my own dent in that number.
Finally the only simple complaint that consistently repeats itself from my friends and customers, is the need for a better photo album handling application, and simple editing tools, like those in Gwenview. Most Windows converts I’ve dealt with are intimidated with Gimp, so much so that I think it does not really need to be a default application in Linux Lite, though it should be kept in the Lite software list. Remmina on the other hand should be in the default installation and tied to updates, and probably Audacity too. It would be nice to have a Linux Lite default build of something like Gwenview without the KDE file manager dependencies.
A fan of good solid pragmatic choices,
TC
Thanks, TC, for your detailed insight you shared with us!
First thing that stuck out for me reading your post are the first two points as they align completely with my take on it. At least in regard to the two distributions you mention, not necessarily with the conclusion in detail.
I actually have worked on a draft for some time, giving feedback to Jerry & team regarding LL 3.0. As it fits quite well into this discussion I decided to share some of it here.
Where am I coming from?
- Linux Lite is still my first choice for a Desktop Linux System.
- I highly appreciate the outstanding community on this forum as well as the great work Jerry and his team is making available to us.
- One of my guiding principles: There is always room for improvements.
So even running the risk of being tagged as a party pooper I'd like to voice some impressions I gained with the release of LL 3.0
Whith series 2.x I was not even considering another distribution. Meanwhile however I catch myself looking around and running the odd tests. Interestingly less for myself than far more for Windows converts I consult and support. Taking all the feedback from users I support and also my own experience into account I'm coming to the conclusion that from a user experience LL 3.0 is sadly some kind of regression.
To name a few:
- updater gone
- control center gone
- windows resizing problems
- default window theme that doesn't distinguish overlaying windows ... already during installation
- notification icons very dark on black panel background
- severe bug that leads to data loss when editing remote files via sftp/Thunar (maybe nothing to do with LL itself)
- menu (still) very disorganized, especially in regard to Accessories, Settings, and System
I see Linux Lite still having the biggest potential to be #1 for a general (Windows) user/convert. And in my understanding there are "only" little things that make it struggle. But as quoted before:
"Sometimes when I consider what tremendous consequences come from little things, I am tempted to think there are no little things.” ~ Bruce Barton
PS 1: The biggest disadvantage I have experienced so far with SolydX is not being able to utilize PPAs. Other from that I'm very tempted.
PS2: TC, have you had a look at
gThumb as an alternative for Gwenview? One of the packages I always install on any Linux Lite installation. I don't have used Gwenview before but a short look at the homepage reminded me of gthumb straight away.
Thanks for your time
(08-27-2016, 09:43 PM)trinidad link Wrote: [ -> ]I think this particular list is a bit off, and I am user familiar with all the distros listed except for elementary OS.
1) I personally think that Linux Lite is the best Linux distro for new Windows converts largely because of its features, its stability, its intuitive ease of use for Windows refugees, and its excellent support, which by the way, every distro out there these days could take a lesson from. It is well conceived to be easily maintained and tweaked from the GUI, a feature which Windows converts need available as much as possible to feel comfortable.
To add a little nasty humor at this point, and probably an unpopular personal opinion: I have never understood the sense of Arch Linux. What is the point of building from scratch anything other than Debian or Slack? If it’s not at the big end, servers, hard science, etc. and it’s not going to be addressed at Windows market share, it just essentially amounts to a hobby. I wish I had that kind of time on my hands. Seems a little vain these days to me, but of course I am old.
TC
Trinidad - I agree 100% with your first point. The fantastic support team at LL is as valuable as the distro itself, and like you have found this to be not very satisfactory elsewhere, due either to elitism (unhelpful) or the problem of support just generally being thin on the ground.
You mention Elementary OS. I have tried this in setup (3) & (4) in signature - like LL it's great on older less powerful PCs. I really liked it (a close 2nd to LL) except for the Midori web browser that seemed to crash frequently (there's probably a fix for that). It looks a bit like Mac OS with icons on a plank, very clean, simple and attractive OS. That said, I don't know what their support community is like.
And turning to your wry remark on Arch Linux. Well, there's nothing wrong with hobbies, be it Arch Linux or anything else for that matter. They simply address personal enjoyment rather than financial or market share issues, a distraction from life's stresses & strains... oh yes, and I should add that I'm not an Arch Linux user - definitely don't have the time, inclination or the brains! ;D
Cheers
Mike
Thanks for the replies guys.
LL, if the menu seems disorganized maybe it's just to make Windows users feel more comfortable. (chuckle) I'm a regular Debian dashboard user, and though I have been working on Windows network systems for years, I still get confused with Windows menus every time I go back to them. The redundancy in Windows drives me nuts. Making Firefox the default web browser in Windows 10 requires changes in four different Windows menus. I know you'd have to agree that the Windows menu system is the most ridiculously over implemented, so Linux Lite seems simple by comparison. I don't know exactly what you are attempting with sftp, but it is probably not Linux Lite, maybe just a network praxis thing I could help you with. I'll take a look at gThumb. I'm looking for something like that to add to my customers boxes. As far as Windows problems that's just XFCE. I use four desktops, and the tray desktop switcher. Makes things quick, though I still like Debian dashboard activities switcher better. Somewhere in the Linux Lite packages there is a Window switcher for the tray too. (maybe add to panel) Let's you choose any open Window or show them all.
Mike, thanks for the reply. I think Linux Lite support is the by far the friendliest for new Linux users anywhere. There are some great people here. I like to jab the Arch guys sometimes just for fun. Not meant as an insult. Have a few buddies who play with it. Want them to develop for Debian instead.
TC
Thanks for the laugh, TC
(-> Windows menu/ users)
Reg. sftp, as I mentioned I also assume it might have nothing to do with Linux Lite. You already have been so kind to give your input to this
bug report/ issue. However I haven't had time to run further tests yet, for example with Xubuntu 16.04 etc. If you have any further input, I would suggest to continue the discussion in the
thread there
Reg. windows problems, I don't have any difficulty with the windows and desktops themselves. It's purely the theme and icon set I get many complaints about. And I too have to change it first thing after installation. I want to get work done, therefore form follows function
Finally I am an expert at something! I am an expert at "new user".
I have tried all of these (and more),so these people need to start listening to an expert-me!
While being number 2 is impressive,it is slightly less impressive than number one.
The expert says number one is (drumroll)...LinuxLite!! Now get with the program article writers.
I have no problem recommending LL to my Windows friends that think "sudo" is the short version of a Phil Collins song to the Win geeks that can't wait to get their hands on Terminal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WipM3SAYqK4
Quote:To add a little nasty humor at this point, and probably an unpopular personal opinion: I have never understood the sense of Arch Linux. What is the point of building from scratch anything other than Debian or Slack? If it’s not at the big end, servers, hard science, etc. and it’s not going to be addressed at Windows market share, it just essentially amounts to a hobby. I wish I had that kind of time on my hands. Seems a little vain these days to me, but of course I am old
Arch is a rolling release and that is more difficult to support in user-land than a version-ed release; and for people who never use rolling releases impossible within their business or operational structure.
--that said, a smaller user base would allow a rolling release to be managed, if the updates were controlled, and of course
a minimum install within a desktop to which you can add or remove what you want to use does make sense, it shortens the install process and gets you going
For Arch installs there is Architect Antergos or some other distro or installer (Script) available..
I'll agree with what you are saying, and I get it this way, if a Linux distro makes a windows user comfortable by doing what they expect, it might move some users to switch
I actually don't think that happens too much, because it is a lot of trouble trying to make windows user's comfortable: Microsoft doesn't even try. They have no problem changing their interface style/desktop or application options to suit their own agendas, and users just have to suck it up
--adding to training costs and operational delays
I also think it (making the windows norm a default style) distorts a Linux desktop style: for example I would give linuxlite using Administrator instead of Root
And not being clear on the why root, guest login (since windows does always have a guest account, as does Google Android.. not being particulary clear (as Ubuntu does about root, guest login and security) and giving links to something called my computer
I don't think Microsoft uses the My prefix any longer for videos, computer, files a or much of anything..
Linuxlite does have a help page (local html file) and that is useful, it may or may not be as effective as other types; Knoppix had that a long time ago, and it took some time before other distros adopted a help screen display on startup..
I would say that Linux distro for the most part do it (provide a reliable comfortable ) desktop just fine: some being better than others and some being problematic about drivers for vidieo or printers or scanner or supporting certain products or product lines
Even though I have to support windows OS and networks, and find the Microsoft OS changes , especially the MS Office version changes for ? efficiency or whatever just plain annoying
I think we get too involved in application selections: for if everyone just used RTF editing it would be so much simpler and would
make file transfer between OS (Linux, MAC (OSX) and Windows OS##) easy; that's exactly what the ODF should have made possible
or something just as transferable PDF for example